DCI-Forum

Chapters => D-Cinema in the Home => Topic started by: w.mayer on Wed February 15, 2017, 05:36:10 AM

Title: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed February 15, 2017, 05:36:10 AM
Since 2002 I have post at AVS Forum about my Projectors I saw own or try in my live and many people around the world know me from there and trust my statements.

As lately are some problems comes up I decide in early December 2016 to stop posting there.

I was not what I want but some circumstances push me to do it.

I was not full happy with this outcome as it was a shame that there was not any more updates published about the development this Projector gets as the Projector I got was a normally Barco DP4K-30L see here:
http://www.barco.com/en/Products/Projectors/Cinema-projectors/Flagship-laser-cinema-projectors/L-series/Ultra-bright-6P-RGB-laser-cinema-projector-for-premium-mid-size-screens.aspx

The Thread at AVS about all this starts at 20 th May 2016 just after some weeks I have visit Barco in there HQ in Belgium and contains a lot of good information and pictures and ends in
early December 2016 where I stop posting in general at AVS.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/2459858-short-day-barco-6p-4k-laser-dlp.html

So for all that like to read how everything develops I will post here from time to time new information about it and I start later today with 2 exiting  good news!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed February 15, 2017, 05:53:26 PM
For those that don’t know the full story let me tell you that I order the normally Barco DP 4K-L30 in May 2016 and as this time the High Contrast Version the Thor was not ready
Barco promise to me to upgrade my Unit step by step to the full Thor specification.
After installation Barco Technician was 2 times here to change parts in the Pr. so at the moment this Pr. is a full Thor at least Cr. wise.
The only missing part is the new Alchemy Input section that should be coming in the next weeks.


First the scaling bug was solved.
Problem for me was always that the optic cannot light up the whole 7 meter 2.35 Format screen when the native 3840 pixels are displayed.
I need to scale it to 4096 to fill my screen.
In the past I can do only a horizontally stretch but as the Pr. not do the same stretch vertically the aspect ratio was wrong (too wide).
This I complain since long time and also other Barco DLP Cinema Pr. User from US I know.
But it turns out it was just a matter of the right settings you have to made with the Barco so it was not a Barco bug it was just a missing info about how to adjust it right.

Second I did a big increase about color fidelity.
Color for 2D and 3D BD and all what is Rec. 709 like TV from STB are perfect as it can be but my UHD with DCI Color and HDR never looks perfect.
You must know that I have a very specially way to feed to the HDMI 1.4 Input from the old Alchemy UHD Content in HDR and DCI color.

The Panasonic UHD Player outputs the signal that goes into a Lumagen Pro Scaler than his output goes into a special box and then to the Barco.
This setup is need to do UHD 4K HDR in DCI color with the existing Inputs.

I have always there good colors but they never looks perfect.
Now I found out why.
The Post Software from the Barco allows to put any color coordinates from any color standard inside.
When I do this and put the coordinates from DCI inside the picture looks always a bit to green Yellow.
Not much but you can see it.
I found out that there are 2 different DCI Color specs there!
The coordinates are 100% the same but the white points are different!
See here a picture.
So when I change the white points to D65 bingo now the color looks almost 100% perfect. 
So looks like all UHD Disc are made for the DCI P3 color with D65 and not for the Theater DCI P3 Standard.

Third I put a new 65” 4k OLED from LG at the back right side at the cinema as a Reference Display inside.
As the OLED show today the best possible Picture money can buy I put this LG OLED 2015 Model inside.
I will soon change it to the 2016 Model as this will have much better DCI Colors and it will be the last model with 3D Support as
LG make a in my view very wrong decision to stop 3D Support for their 2017 OLED models to catch up the brightness HDR race with LEDs as the
3D Foil that is necessary drops about 30% light.

Anyway this new OLED are the perfect match to see both images at the same time and allows me things that are impossible to do without having this OLED.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Nick on Thu February 16, 2017, 09:28:32 AM
Hi Wolfgang!

Good to see you here  :) And even better that your fans can now follow your adventures on the DCI-forum :)
The last information is pretty interesting. I assume that the color reference points (P3 based on D65 point) would be also true for my DP-1200. I will give it a try soon.

Best, Nick
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Cinetom on Thu February 16, 2017, 11:45:56 AM
The difference in color temperature really makes a difference, very visible. Good post.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: bdgarcia on Thu February 16, 2017, 11:29:20 PM
Hi Wolfgang - Great to be able to follow your successes again.   My Thor is supposed to ship on 03/03/2017.   My new screen ships on 02/28/2017.   I have started a thread on Avsforum about my build out.   It is titled The Mouse House Theater.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri February 17, 2017, 04:57:46 AM
Hi Nick nice you join here!

Yes Cinetom its a visible difference even if the first picture include some more adjustments about HDR Gama curve and so on.
Because of this I post this new 2 pictures as they show ONLY the difference between the 2 white points from both DCI P3 Specifications.

Also here in this forum the pictures are much better.
The preview is much bigger for many that just need a small look its may be fine to watch only the
preview and when you go to + you can see the pictures in for sample 4k resolution
with no further compressing!
So a very good picture quality I like it.


Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri February 17, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
Hi Bryan

Nice to see you here!

I see your post at AVS but i doubt that this was the right place  :).
Think here this page is the perfect place for it and that is the reason why i continue only here.

Hope you will have the same good picture that I have as the Pr. as it was today blow all away that I have seen in my live and I saw a lot  :).

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Cinetom on Mon February 20, 2017, 02:51:15 PM
How is speckle on these.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Mon February 20, 2017, 04:14:29 PM
Speckle is depending on Screen you use and other things.

I use a Harkness Matt Preview Screen that is the best non speckling normally Screen and other fabric screens like the V6 are have much less almost not show any speckle at all.

Speckle is also depending on what you see 3D or 2D.
In 2D when you use all 6 Lasers speckle is not a issue for 99.9% when Screen is like the one I have.
In 3D Speckle was more visible as per Eye only 3 Laser works.

I will see if I will may be change my screen to the V6 when my big size will be there and if they can do it perfect without any bugs at all.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sat February 25, 2017, 06:52:13 AM
We watch yesterday the movie "Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children" first in the 3D BD version and later i have check the UHD Disc quality.

First this is a very rare movie in UHD that use the 1.85 Format as most other are using the 2.35 Format.

The picture quality from the 3D BD version was outstanding but also the UHD 2D 4K HDR Rec. 2020 version looks very good.
Some of the early parts of the movie was perfect to show the top Ansi cr. the Barco Laser Pr. have.

It was one more time a good example what a good 3D BD and a good UHD Disc can show at home and this Discs was a perfect tool to show how important a good Ansi Cr. is.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sat February 25, 2017, 05:13:01 PM
I have check again in the movie
"Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children" UHD Disc or 3D BD Version
between 2:50 and 9:00 are some very good parts to see how good ANSI Cr. can look.
This is reference material!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Cinetom on Sat February 25, 2017, 11:11:46 PM
Mayer I will give this title a try on my home system "non" Thor projector, I am expecting it will not look as good  :(

Keep the info coming. I hope Bryan is able to contribute as well.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Mon February 27, 2017, 10:02:31 AM
I have many unseen BDs in 3D and 2D.

Now as the Barco was beside that my 4K3D pictures still not work and the new Alchemy Input is missing perfect we see lately a lot of BD movies.
Yesterday I see "Badman The Dark Knight" for the first time on BD.

Like most other BDs we saw after the full cr. upgrade to the Thor Version again this high ANSI Cr. is really specially.

Believe it or not but almost every normally 2D and 3D BD looks a bit like HDR Material!
May some people will say “oh what he tells because the on of cr. is still in the only a bit over 6.000:1 range it can’t be that good” but people that know me for long time know that I not report about it when this is a non-issue or not something very new.

The reason was the high ANSI Cr. in combination with my black box design of my cinema with almost 0 reflection back to the screen I have report since some time.
One week ago we watch with a guest a normally 2D BD and he ask if this was 4K UHD with HDR and Rec. 2020 color.
I say no it was not UHD just a normally 2K BD in 2D but he can’t believe until I show him the disc playing!
So it was not only me that see it this way.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Mon March 06, 2017, 08:14:39 AM
I got good news from Barco.

Tim Sinnaeve Residential Managing Director Barco inform me today that I will likely get the new Alchemy
in 2-3 weeks from now.

As our Pay TV Station Sky start to broadcast 4K soccer in 3840x2160 50P I need this new Input to show it.

I can not use my tricks how I can see with the old Alchemy UHD HDR Rec. 2020 4K Disc.
At 4K 50P there is not any trick possible you need the HDMI 2.0 for it.

I now only hope that this unit will offer to see after a 10 month break my 4K 3D slides again or at least not
"much" later.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri March 10, 2017, 04:44:38 PM
Some months ago I got the OPPO UHD Disc Player but as this was full of different bugs I return it.
Now I got it back as the dealer promise me that most of the bugs I complain ( for sample 24.00P output and not the right 23.976P) are solved.

So it test UHD BD in 2D and 3D and yes I can confirm the running now at the right frame rate with no micro stutter at all.

What was funny to see is how different the OPPO UHD Player output colors compare to the Samsung.
Please see here 2 sample picture where you can compare easy how much different color both Player show.
The Samsung have too much Red that was complained since some time compare to the very natural
looking colors from the new OPPO UHD Player.
Best you can see it in the 20th Century Fox Logo but if you watch close you can see it in the other Picture as well.

I cannot understand how people with a high end Projector can report that they are fine with the Samsung UHD Player!
At one side they talking about Projector calibration like crazy for 1 % more or better color accuracy and on the other side they use a UHD Player that have a far bigger color bug  a Projector can have  and they accept it and run such a UHD Player in there High End system !
I will never understand things like this.
May some of this people should take a close look about my pictures to realize the difference.
Before anybody will ask YES I have the latest Software in the Samsung.

Pictures was taken with the Canon 5DSR a Zeiss Otus 28mm Lens and the
LG 4K 77" OLED and therefore pictures have some kind of interferences visible.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: dirk goetze on Wed March 15, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
Hello Wolfgang,

good what jump over to this side !
what time you expect your big V6 fabric ?
Mine 150" V6 work very well in my Batcave and i'm curious abhout your impressions.

Best Regards dirk
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed March 15, 2017, 06:23:09 PM
Hi Dirk
A good decision!
Welcome to this forum.

No i have not hear about my big 7 meter version.
I waiting for a info.

Best Wolfgang
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed March 15, 2017, 06:32:29 PM
I got this week some 4K 3D DCI Content that contains some 4K 3D Slides I have made.
This will be the first time to see at home my Private 4k 3D Still Pictures again after I sold my double Stack Barco B32 almost 1 year ago.

Good news was it works and my Projector playback this DCI File in native 4K 3D at 24P.

But there was some bugs inside.
First I send to the Guy that do the DCI file for me some wrong TOP DOWN Pictures where Left and Right was mixed so when I playback it sometimes I have to 180° turn the 3D Glasses
as the left right was wrong.
But this will be easy to solve I will get soon a new file that should be not have this bug anymore on.

More a problem was the other bug that the right part from the 3D Picture always show a normally color with normally saturation level but the left part show a huge decrease in color saturation and color itself also looks very wrong much too much green and red looks like almost missing complete.
It looks a little bit that the Projector use a wrong color bank for the left part of the 3D Picture or it can be also a bug in the freeware that was used to create this DCI File.
Here some picture how left and right looks.
Please also take a look about the first 2 pictures.
I try to get the coated glasses out from the 3D glasses as i have to use it to make good pictures.
It not went well to cook the glasses :) so I to put it into 2 parts :)

As you can see in the pictures playing back BD in 3D works fine there is not any difference in color between left and right so this bug must be coming from Projector side or Source side.

I have check again with other 3D DCI Content and also a Clip from Hobbit in 2K 3D HFR (48P) show the same bug see pictures!
So this makes it more than likely that the Bug coming from the Barco Pr.
I remember in the early days that 3D BDs show a similar bug with the Barco but it can be also a other reason.

I hope that Barco can get me the original 4K 3D version they promise to me with a passive input with two HDMI Inputs where Left and Right Part of the
4K 3D Picture coming from a PC Graphic Card that outputs a 4K 3D Image via Dual Desktop TOP DOWN soon to solve this issues.

Beside this bugs it looks very promising what I have seen so far.
Picture was very clean and sharp almost too sharp and that’s the reason why I do some new 3D processing with less sharpness enhancement as it looks to sharp with the level I had in the past for my B32 double stack and this show how good the 3D can be with this Barco Thor.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu March 16, 2017, 08:00:32 AM
I am happy to report that the color bug is solved.

The Barco Technician goes via TeamViewer into my Projector and use some new settings.
I am glad that it was easy to sole this bug by using just some other "the right adjustments".

Colors looks now perfect.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu March 16, 2017, 07:57:20 PM
I got a new DCP File with 15 of my best 4K 3D Stills and now as I have made a new 3D processing with left right was ok and the color bug solved all is now perfect.
I also learn to adjust via the Barco Post Software this pictures to fine tune them and store this settings under a special Marco for 4K 3D Pictures.
Some pictures looks shocking good and better than any even the best UHDs.
I must realize that even with the much lower sharpness I process this new batch of pictures some of them looks too sharp.
Looks like I have to use 0 sharpness as even 10 is too high.
The reason why I can do this is how the Barco Thor project the images.
There is no need for a enhancement as the Picture was perfect WITHOUT any of this tools.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Tue March 21, 2017, 05:17:21 PM
Sad to report that I found some new issues with the new Oppo UHD Player.

The Sharpness control for BD is almost 0 even if you use the highest setting possible it’s hard to see a difference between 0 and max. sharpness.
Even more bad with UHD Disc there is not any Sharpness enhancement possible at all as 0 show the same picture as max. settings.
Other like color saturation and contrast and all working just the sharpness not at all!
Bad for me as the Lumagen I use for playback UHD HDR content to the Barco (till I get the new Alchemy) had also for UHD not any sharpness control at all inside so I have nothing at all if
I like to use it.
I hate to use much sharpness and as I have report here there is almost no need for it as the Barco Pr. show a very good picture but I like to have this control as some of
the about 95% average looking UHDs need some slight sharpness enhancement some time.

About good and bad UHDs.
I just watch “Passengers” in UHD one hour ago.
Thanks to the perfect Info tool the Oppo UHD Player have I know this UHD Disc was mastered at 4000 nits.
I decrease contrast a bit as my Lumagen Gama curve are made for 1000 nit content UHD Disc.
But picture looks in some sequences very good in some only good.
Looks like some material was only in 2K.
But this UHD Disc is a good sample for a top picture UHD quality.
Sad to say this is still rare this days as most UHD Disc are only average quality and many like from Warner are 2K only.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sun March 26, 2017, 10:37:45 AM
We watch yesterday Arrival UHD with the Barco.

A very good movie we all like it.

Beside that this UHD Disc was very dim and many people complain about it the good thing having a high brightness Barco Thor you just need to open the laser a bit more to compensate it.

I found 2 bugs don´t know where both are coming from.

First the Banding.
Both setups the Barco 4K Laser and the 77" LG OLED show banding especially in the picture at 45 min. 51 sec. take a look.
I have try any combination of the OPPO output but it is always visible as you see it in this pictures.
Please open the full resolution to see it good.
The excuse the Barco have is that I have made the UHD Disc Playback only possible with a lot of tricks so not sure the new Alchemy will be show this bug or not.
I also don´t know if it may come from the disc itself or not.
The disc is mastered with 4000 nits.

Then the LG 77" show some vertical line that the Barco setup not show.
I have not any idea what is the reason for this.
As I have many problems about handshake from OPPO UHD Player to my Denon AVR 4200 I use with the LG OLED I try already
to connect the OPPO UHD Player direct with the OLED but also there this Line Bug is still there the handshake was ok this way.
So the Denon AVR 4200 is the problem for the handshake I guess.
I will try the Panasonic UHD Player and see if it will be there as well.
If so it’s likely that the LG OLED is the problem and that is not good at all.

Please note that this pictures was shot to show the bugs and not to rate picture quality between the OLED and the Barco.
Both show different colors as I use Auto Color for this pictures and the laser act different than the OLED.

May someone have some helpful information about the bugs I report.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Sun March 26, 2017, 11:02:25 AM
One line Wolfgang? And only to the left? I see a bar at the spot of the x-es, then at least three vertical bars to thright and 6 or even 7 to the left, so at least 10 bars on my simple laptop. Am I the only one to see more bars in this picture?

Striking color difference on the LG OLED and Barco Thor pictures. The LG treestumps are black, the picture posted of the Barco image is blueish.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sun March 26, 2017, 11:27:12 AM
Yes there are not only a line visible.
The question is where it comes from?
If I remember right I saw this kind of bug in the OLED in past also but not remember what source I feed this time.

I have explain already why the camera show in automatic color  different colors in the pictures but this is very normally when you know how this auto color in camera works.
But this is not the point.
The issue is both show banding so bad i never ever saw before and I don´t know what cause it.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sun March 26, 2017, 03:35:29 PM
I do more test on the Banding and on the Line bug I found.

First the Panasonic UHD Player show the same bug for color banding at both the LG OLED and the Barco Pr. and also this line but is visible at the LG OLED.

BTW the handshake with the Denon was way better than the OPPO UHD.
Not perfect but switch one time the Denon of and on I get always after a picture with the OPPO do this 20 times and often not any picture!

Than I try different UHD Disc Passengers and this vertical line bug was also there visible with the LG OLED.
Than I try Maze Runner1 and also I can found this bug.
The darker the picture was the better you can see it but looks like its harder to see with the 1000 nit UHD Disc.
Both other UHD Disc are mastered at 4000 nits as Sony do most of the time.

So likely the Line bug was the LG OLED .......too bad will ask them.
Let´s see if i can get any feedback.
With other sources so far I never see it but i will watch for it now and let´s see if I can found it there as well.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Mon March 27, 2017, 02:19:31 PM
I have check with SAT Signals this Line I report is visible also with other content with my 77" LG OLED!
The more dark the picture is the better you can see this line.
This is why with this very dim mastered Arrival UHD movie it was so good visible.
Not good!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu April 06, 2017, 06:13:24 AM
The Barco Technician finally will install next week Wednesday 12th April the new Alchemy.

It will be the first new Alchemy in the world that will be installed in the field.

Let’s think positive and hope everything will be working fine.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: MrPixels on Fri April 07, 2017, 01:36:28 PM
Yes you will be the very first in the world to have the new Barco Alchemy and HDMI 2.0. You are everyones eyes and ears cant wait for your report. No one better to put a new product through testing, I hope the experience puts a smile on your face.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed April 12, 2017, 05:07:37 AM
Object of Desire arrive today!

Here a first Picture.
The Barco technician will be working on it and hopefully this afternoon/evening I have a smile on my face......
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Wed April 12, 2017, 05:19:21 AM
No way to feed it 4K over SDI? With just the two 3G inputs. So the new HDMI input is essential to input 4K. Will be interesting to see how it performs, Wolfgang.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed April 12, 2017, 12:52:11 PM
So Donaldk the first time this unit is with a consumer in the world after so many wait for a report and you ask this???

I don't care  about this 2 SDI inputs as there is not any need for me but if someone need it its there he can feed 4K with it so far i know.

I will post a report about the outcome of this day may later today.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Wed April 12, 2017, 01:12:05 PM
Wolfgang you misunderstood what I said/tried to say, it is not about the SDI, but the HDMI. With no high bandwidth SDI, the new HDMI is required/crucial for feeding the Barco with 4K. As it is the only way of getting the 4K, with HDR and wide color, high bitdepth, to the projector. So very interesting to see how this long awaited/highly anticipated unit performs.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed April 12, 2017, 04:59:09 PM
A smile on my face?

Yes but not because everything runs well today.

First it was easy to swap the Alchemy out just 4 screws open slide the old one out change the 3 hard drives to the new Alchemy and swap new Alchemy again inside close the 4 screws.
Then put new Software on the Barco for the new Alchemy done.

First the negative things.
3D BD are not working anymore right.
There was some synch problem between left and right in motion visible that the technician from Barco cannot solve today.
Also we cannot scale 2D and 3D BD and 4K UHD in the scope format from 3840 to 4096 by enlarge it horizontally AND vertically both at the same time that I can use my full screen.
It should be possible with a new Software release but not  know when.
2D BD was working fine but need a bit adjustments for Gamma and other Parameters.
Post Software had this adjustments but it was not working with the new Alchemy!
Gamma adjustment work with the Post Software so at least this I can adjust to the right level.

UHD works after I found some nice tools about HDR good.
It shows factory wise also a very very dim image but Barco was smart enough to listen to me about my since long time reported issue and the put a nice feature inside.
They have a section where you can select HDR and there you can put any number (nit) from I think 0 to 10.000 inside that makes the clipping point of HDR.
May it starts with 100 nit but I just short try 300 nit to 700 nit.
300 nit was a bit too bright with too much clipping for my taste.
500 nit looks near perfect.
Nice was the Sony UHD Disc when you display the hidden UHD Test pattern and they show clear  what number you put inside at the Barco this will be the clipping point.
So a bit similar to the HDR Slider Sony did with their 4K UHD Consumer pr.
I like how Barco did it as you can select whatever you like and adopt it to the individual screen size.
May some like more brightness they use 300 nit other like 500 nit or even more.
For my eyes with my screen size I like everything from 400-650 nit with the Barco as it give the best result.

Compare this 4K UHD HDR Rec. 2020 Picture with the picture I have since long time with the Lumagen Scaler und Stripper (the tricky way to feed 4K HDR to the old Alchemy) it’s hard to say what looks better.
I not see a big improvement it show a slightly other picture with more colors in some areas with a bit different color over all and less clipping in bright sequences.
I have to test more before I post the result.
BTW the OPPO not woks with my new Marantz Decoder together when you playback UHD Disc!
Not with 24P and also not with 4K 60P Version from the Billy Linn Movie we try as well.
So I have to feed the picture direct from Oppo to the Barco without any Marantz in-between!
Not good but cannot say what cause it.
Was it the Oppo UHD Player the reason or the Marantz but this HDMI hand shack problems gets worse and worse................

Most exiting today was that I was able to see for the first time Billy Lynns Long Haftime Walk in UHD 4K HDR Rec. 2020  with the world first 60P Disc and it looks like real!
Very good I like it a lot even if you need to adopt to 60P coming from 24P since long time is hard but when you get used to 60P there is no way back to 24P.
It will be even better some day when Oppo have their sharpness enhancement ready as at the moment this feature is not there.

So all over a mix day for me as it was pity that 3D BD not work right so I cannot use the new Alchemy at the moment.

I hope for a fast solution about my 3D BD issue and the 3840 to 4096 scale for scope movies and the issue that adjustment’s from Post Software can be not made for
Saturation Brightness Contrast and Hue then I can go and use the new Alchemy and test it in many other ways.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri April 14, 2017, 12:44:54 PM
I got surprisingly a mail today from Barco Development saying that the have a new Software for me that may solve the 3D BD Playback issues I report in my last post.

So I swap the old Alchemy out that was inside put the new one inside change the 3 hard drives and Barco help me to put that new Software on.

Wow 3D Bug is gone!

What a nice surprise.

I have hear in the past that Barco is a big slow elephant but this time it was like a big fast Tiger :).
Just 2 days it need to solve my major 3D problem very nice thank you Barco.

The bad thing about it now I like this kind of fast bug solving every time  :)

They told me that they need some weeks for the other things to solve but this gives me now the possibilty that I will use this new Alchemy and test it with all UHD 4K HDR Rec. 2020 color disc I have include the first 4K 60P movie and Sky 4K broadcast at 50P.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: MrPixels on Fri April 14, 2017, 02:13:48 PM
Good work on Barco's behalf. You are an asset to them reporting the bugs so they know first what needs to be addressed.  It is expected some things will take a little longer but Barco knowing how important 3D is to you it is nice they were able to tackle this in a timely manor. I am sure that put a smile on your face:)
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sun April 16, 2017, 07:32:33 AM
Here are a good news from the new Alchemy.

At post number 21 you can see the pictures I have post about the banding the Barco show with Arrival UHD with “this specially way to feed at this time
UHD HDR Material” with the Lumagen and the Striper to the Barco Laser Projector.

Also the 77” 1016 OLED show this banding!

Now with the new Alchemy it is the first time where I see that this banding are 99% gone.
I think it’s very near to invisible and may you can see in the picture still a bit but this comes from the picture making as this pictures is the bottle neck.

Compare this "close up" picture to the one in Post number 21 and you will see the difference!
Please also note that Barco not do this with any filtering normally LCOS Pr. have inside to make this bandings less visible.
This filtering cost details and just to have some few min. with difficult sequence’s banding less visible the disadvantage is that 
99.9% of the movie time you have less details visible.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri April 21, 2017, 07:13:36 AM
Some Updates.

I found some bugs with the new Alchemy Input but Barco is already working on it.
Some of them are already solved and I think it will not take much time that  Barco fix the rest as well.

I found yesterday night a nice surprise.
As you may know the Barco Thor lose more light during the contrast upgrade from 3000:1 to over 6000:1 than original was calculated (33%).
But the real lost was 46% and that was not a problem for 2D as there I never go over 70% of the laser power but for 3D in scope I have only about 18 FTL coming to my eye.
You will now say wow this is bright but I was use to a bright 3D Image since long time and I always wish to show 3D not below 20 FTL.
One option to increase the brightness was for scope 3D movies ( for flat 3D movies I have enough light) to use the ISCO Anamorphic 1.25 Lens the “by far best Anamorphic Lens in the world”.

The problem was that I hear from Barco that it will be not possible to stretch in the Barco Projector the Scope Format in picture high so much that I can use this Lens.
Yesterday I found a settings that works with it and a first short test show a perfect 3D BD Picture with about 23% increase of Brightness!

The Picture show beside a little distortion that is almost invisible in a running movie not any negative aspect but the increase in lumen from around 18 FTL to over 22 FTL is a big advantage for me!

This is a very nice step up in 3D Brightness that I will use from now on for all Scope 3D BDs.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu April 27, 2017, 06:57:04 PM
I install today a new 65” OLED that I use as a Reference Monitor in my home cinema.

This replace the 4K LG OLED 2015 Model with the 2016 Model.

The new one have more brightness and can display almost 100 % DCI Color compare to the old one.
In Red you can see that easy.
The last and best ever build 3D model and the only that can do also Dolby Vison.

Very sad that LG stops all OLED that can do 3D as they are by far the best 3D Displays ever made.
What a shame!!!

Likely tomorrow I will get a new Software for my Barco Projector and an update for the new Alchemy as well.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri April 28, 2017, 03:18:23 PM
I got today new Alchemy Software that solve some bugs I had found.

Now it is possible to scale  a UHD HDR Rec 2020 Signal at Scope 3840x1640 to the full panel without any bugs.
In theory it should be possible to now scale it even vertically so big that you can use the Isco 1.25 Anamorphic lens but with the lumen the Barco Thor have for 2D there is really no need to do it !

But this high brightness offers you a luxury way to project HDR.
My older Projector had only with a Isco 1.25 Anamorphic lens (see picture in the second last post) at full light out in 2D 20 FTL on the screen.
Now with the Barco Thor I can go up to over 40 FTL at the full 7 meter in scope (without the Anamorphic Lens) and
with this lumen you can use much higher NIT Adjustment in other words you can see “MORE HDR”!
For sample in the past I often use 300 nit clipping as this is the only way that the Picture was bright enough.
Now I can use 500 nit clipping and even more like 600 and 700 nit and I still can see a brighter image compare to before with a lot more HDR Effect visible in the picture.
Even at 1000 nit it is possible to watch what a nice HDR Picture!
The world record near 1000:1 Ansi Cr. further enhance this!

Barco told me that they will have soon a function that automatic adjust the Nit depends on screen size and the individual UHD Disc how it was mastered.
Most UHD Disc was mastered for 1000 nits some for 2000 nit and most Sony UHD Disc are use 4000 nits.
So this new function will be adjust to the individual Disc and how they was mastered and how big the screen was.
On top of this you can manually adjust it if you like it brighter or more HDR visible just about how you like it most.

So this is for ALL the perfect solution as this allows the people that are not so technical to drive it in Auto HDR Mode that will show all the time a good HDR picture and for those that like to adjust it manually this is also possible.
So for both sides the best from the best VERY NICE !

There are some more minor issues that Barco is working on but I was very sure that most will be solve till Barco will ship the first new Alchemy’s to the first customers in the coming weeks.

The way I playback in the past 4K UHD Disc with the Lumagen was a very good temporary solution and I have enjoyed this for over a half year.
I saw a lot of good movies in a very good picture quality.

But now I can say that UHD HDR Rec.2020 4K Disc feed from my Oppo BD Player feed direct via HDMI cable to the new Alchemy HDMI 2.0 Input looks perfect.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Mon May 01, 2017, 05:09:56 AM
One of the issues with the new Alchemy Input was that I cannot playback Video Content that my Sony AX1 Cam record in 4K.

Since over 3 years I have this camera I not have seen the content I record (private home movies from family) as I like to watch it when I have the right Projector for.
I select 3840x2160 at 60p and the Cam record in 8bit and 4:2:0.

Now I was very excited as I know with the new Alchemy it should be possible.

But then the big disappointment.
The Barco so far cannot display 4K 60p content with 8 bit 4:2:0 it must be 4:2:2!
Barco will add 4:2:0 support later but today it not works.
All other 4K Consumer Projectors have 4:2:0 support so Barco need it as well as there are beside many other 4K Video Cams more sources with this format like 4K STB.
But then a nice surprise.
I try one MP4 file the Sony Cam record copy it to a USB Stick and the new Oppo UHD Player plays it perfect !
The Panasonic UHD Player cannot playback it as there is even with the latest Software always a stutter visible.
Not so with the Oppo UHD Player it plays this content fine.

Picture looks outstanding good and even if it was only 8bit and no HDR it was almost better than anything else I have seen on UHD!
Only few UHD Disc like “Lucy” or the first 4K 60p Movie Billy Lynns “Long Haftime Walk” are coming close to the material the Sony AX1 can show at least when the content was record under good light condition.
It was a huge surprise how good this material was displayed and a nice temporary solution to playback 4K 60P 8bit 4:2:0 content till Barco Thor will have 4:2:0 support.

Looks like the source quality are the Bottle neck if you have the Barco Thor!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Mon May 01, 2017, 07:44:39 AM
Indeed Wolfgang Broadcast (including Satellite, Cable) will be 4:2:0 even when 10 bit for HDR. The first chip generation from ViXS did support 4:2:2, I was told, but that meant it could provide 4:2:2 output, upsampled from 4:2:0. Even from contribution/primary distribution clients the representative did not see demand for HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2. So even in the primary market of cinema's 4:2:0 support would be essential for 'Alternative Content'.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: dirk goetze on Tue May 02, 2017, 10:01:52 AM
Hello Wolfgang,

very good news at all!

Maybe the hd fury linker can be solve the problem with the camera and convert the signal.
I'm not shure, but you should give it try. Just an idea

best dirk
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Tue May 02, 2017, 10:16:49 AM
Great suggestion, according to hdfury (https://www.hdfury.com/4k-linker-ultra-scaling-modes-in-progress) this has been tested and should work: Input: 4K50/60 YCC 4:2:0 8b 300MHz   Output: 4K50/60 RGB/YCC 4:4:4/YCC 4:2:2 8b 600MHz.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Tue May 02, 2017, 07:11:53 PM
Yes Donald Barco should add this as soon as possible.

Dirk
Thanks for the good Info.
I have one so I can test it if it’s working.
But almost nicer was to playback the files from the Oppo UHD Player as there you can easy select a file and have full control over playback with all functions from the Oppo UHD Player.
This makes it even more nice and easy to playback the content as compare direct from the Sony 4K Cam HDMI out.

But a Projector in this price range should playback 4:2:0 Signals as ever other sub 2000 Euro Projector can do it no question.

Last weekend my Crestron System was build up to drive the whole Cinema include the
Barco Thor Projector and the nice thing was all runs well not any problem at all.

So from now on my family can even if I was not at home or not like to watch a movie enjoy this top home cinema as beside me in the past no one knows how to operate this complex system.
Now hit 3 bottoms and put a disc into the Oppo UHD Player they can watch a movie and with press 2 bottoms the can drive all down.
But not only my family like it .... I like it as well  :)!

It was so very sad that I cannot use the Kaleidescape Player System
as we watch a lot of 3D BDs and this System cannot handle 3D BDs at all.
Very very sad as this playback solution will be nice to have.

Just comes up from the Cinema and test further updates from the new Alchemy.
Good progress but it gets too late I need a bed so I will report about the stage in the next post.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri May 05, 2017, 07:07:36 PM
So this is the Status of the Barco Thor Projector with the new Alchemy Input board on 5th  May 2017.

-2D BDs : no problem at all
-3D BDs : no problem at all
-Full HD STB : no problem at all
-4K STB : likely no problem but I have to check when I get the STB back.
-DCI Content 2K 4K 2D and 2K 3D and 2K 3D HFR: no problem at all (but I have test it just briefly)

-UHD Disc 4K HDR Rec 2020 24P and 60P:
In general no problem picture looks very good.
Some issues are there:
-So far there was the Nit setting that I have always to set new to about 500 nits as Projector so far cannot safe this setting. Barco told me this will be solve next week.
-Gamma was at this time not adjustable.
It looks a bit too dark compare to my new 4K LG OLED Reference Monitor but I have so far not any possibility to change this as the Post Software that was "very nice to use" so far not working with the UHD Format and the new Alchemy together.
Most Picture Parameters I can adjust in the Oppo UHD Player but not Gamma!
So most important for me was to adjust this Gamma to the right level as near black parts tend to clip in the 1-5% IRE range.
I hope Barco will offer at least Gamma adjustment soon and the rest from Post Software not so much later.
Having this Post Software ready for the Barco Thor and all formats is a big sales point as no other competitor have such a system!

-3D 4K my own private pictures:
Barco create a Software that should playback with a special computer this pictures.
Believe it or not I have till today not test this so I cannot tell finally if it works!
I know this sounds a bit strange but first I like to have everything else are working perfect before I will test this “cream cover”!
I got some weeks ago a DCI File in 4K 3D and it contains some of my best 4K 3D Pictures I did in the last years see also Post number 19.
So I know already how this 4K 3D Pictures looks and they looks unbelievable better than anything else I have seen so far in my live.
Way better than the best UHD Disc and better than any 4K DCI Movie I have seen so far.

There was a general Problem to feed UHD 4K 24P and 60P content via an 18 Meter long Optical HDMI Cable.
Looks like there is not any fast way that this cable are working with the new Alchemy HDMI 2.0 Input.
Barco told me that the cable works not 100% right to the specification but looks like only the Barco HDMI 2.0 Inputs have a problem with it as many other Projectors and other Displays have not any problem with it.
So if you need a longer than 8 Meter cable from source to the Projector that can do the full 18 GB for the only so far available UHD Disc from Billy Linns Haftime walk and other upcoming titles
you need a very good coper cable with repeaters.

So all in all the Barco Thor with the new Alchemy is almost ready for prime time.
A normally user will not have any problems to playback all the content from different sources that we have today.
When you order now this Projector and count the delivery time Barco should have by then solved all this issues.

My headline ask if the Barco Thor is the best Projector in the world?
The answer is a clear yes.
The Barco Thor is very expensive but for those that can afford it they should know that they get the best Projector money can buy today.


Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: MrPixels on Sat May 06, 2017, 01:39:18 PM
Nice to see Barcos speedy response time addressing the needed updates on a early product launch. It is obvious Mayers contribution is appreciated by Barco. Great teamwork and fun watching the product come together.
Thumbs up to Barco for being the first to deliver HDMI 2.0 for alternative content in a cinema product.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sat May 06, 2017, 06:41:22 PM
Tonight I found that the reported gamma adjustment was "only" for HDR UHD Material missing.

For full HD STB Broadcast as well 2D BD and 3D BD there was a new gamma adjustment that comes with the Software update from yesterday and this works perfect.
So even if you not have the Post Software on you can now adjust Gamma.

This is can be very helpfull as you can now select the value that fit to your projection room how dark it is and how you like it.
So only for HDR sources UHD this is still missing.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sat May 13, 2017, 04:20:38 PM
I have test the last few days 3 different 4K Video Cams with the Barco Thor Projector.

The 3.5 year old Sony AX1 the first Consumer 4K Cam that can record 4K at 60P.
The new Panasonic GH5 the first Picture Camera that can record 4K at 60P that just arrive some weeks ago.
And the big new Professional Sony FS7II that can also record 4K 60 in DCI Format and almost Rec. 2020 color with many other formats.
See Picture that show the size difference.

It was a big surprise as I have post already how good the picture from the 3.5 years old Sony AX1 perform with the Barco Thor Projector.
95% of the UHD Disc are show a less good picture than this old 4K Cam!

Now the new Panasonic GH5 beats picture quality wise the Sony AX1 as the GH5 have an almost 8 times bigger sensor (16:9 area) and there are almost 4 years between this cameras!

A surprise was that the big Sony Professional PXW FS7II perform not better than the GH5 in “how I use it”!
You must know that I cannot playback any of the formats that this camera record with the Oppo UHD Player like with the Sony AX1 MP4 files and the GH5 MP4 Files.

I can only use the HDMI Output from the Sony FS7II  that output 4K at 60 in likely 4:2:0  8 bit.
But this shows a very similar picture to the GH5 and beside handling for sample AF that works not very nice with the GH5 and Zoom (the GH5 have not any electrical zoom at all) the FS7II not show any advantage as how I can use them!
And all this is without talking about the weight price and sizes difference this 2 cameras have!
For sure the Sony FS7II will perform very good when you use this camera as they normally user use it to record in DCI and going to the post production and create a DCI Content with it.
But in my case I do not like to do this.
I prefer an easy playback solution and the Panasonic GH5 give me this see picture number 2.
Just plug the SD Card via a USB SD Card Reader to the Oppo UHD Player and playback the MP4 Files in 4K 60P 4:2:0 at about 150MB.

This give you a picture that beats 98% of all 4K UHD Disc!
And even more if you not need to record in 4K 60P and 30P is enough for you the camera can record AND store it in 4:2:2 10 bit at the SD Card!
I hear that it should be also possible to record the HDMI Output in 4K 60P in 4:2:2 in 10 bit via a separate recorder but I will not do it as the Oppo cannot playback such recordings.

The Leica Lens 12-60mm that comes together with the GH5 (full frame sensor 24-120mm) perform outstanding and the price for a lens like this if often more expensive than this whole
GH5 with the Leica Lens together!
I play 2600 Euro and that’s very cheap for what you get for it.


Record now with the Panasonic GH5 your kids growing or some other important moments as you can capture it easy cheap in an outstanding picture quality that 95% of all Hollywood UHD Disc so far not have.
Times is running fast do it now as this time will never come back.

So the Panasonic GH5 is an absolute insider tip to shot very high quality 4K 60P content and on top it shot also nice pictures.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Tue May 16, 2017, 01:50:54 PM
The issue I report about the 18 meter long optical HDMI Cable that are not working with the Barco Thor Projector when you feed 4K UHD is not a Barco issue.

The manufacturer of the cable confirm today that they will upgrade this cable later this year.
Why this cable are working with other 4K Projectors was not 100% clear for me but good news was it was not the Barco that is wrong.

I try to find out if there is only both end pieces that have to be changed as they contains the electronic.
The fiber cable is already be laid to the walls and tubes and it will be a easy thing to just change the end pieces.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri June 02, 2017, 12:35:00 PM
I got Info from Barco that I will get a new Software that contains some of the HDR Adjustments and also very likely parts or the full Auto HDR functions in 2 to 3 weeks from now.

Later today I will show this Projector to a Cinema Owner from US.
Lets see what he will say.....
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: MrPixels on Fri June 02, 2017, 12:50:16 PM

Sounds like a fun day, I am sure they will like what they see :)
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Tue June 06, 2017, 04:14:35 PM
Ray Hallett and his wife our good best friend from US just leave us today after they are joining a private event we had here in Germany over the last few days.

He is one of the very few Cinema Owners I know worldwide that “really” taking care about picture and sound quality in his cinemas and he is very technically.
http://www.hallettcinemas.com/ (http://www.hallettcinemas.com/)
He told me that he had with his 57 Barco DLP Projectors that he have since over 5 years (15 double Stack 3D Setups) not one single issue with one of the Barco Projectors!

We saw 3 movies during his stay.
Two older 2D BD Movies in HD and 1 UHD Title in 4K HDR Rec. 2020 call "Lucy".

Both normally BDs in HD looks thanks to the high cr. (ansi cr. and on off cr.) and the sharp optic the Barco Thor Projector have very good.

Top was the movie "Lucy" in 4K UHD with HDR and Rec. 2020.
That looks like looking out to a glass window he told me after!

Last was the 10 still pictures in 4K 3D.
This pictures looks to him unbelievable.

I was glad that I can show him this finish setup finally as he was last June 2016 here with us but this time I just find out some days before that we can’t bring the Projector down the stairs and therefore we cannot setup the Projector at all.

But good was that he saw the final version with the high ansi cr. and the high on off cr. together with the new Alchemy input module and the latest Software.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Wed June 07, 2017, 09:19:25 AM
Is he considering upgrading one of his screens with an Barco HC DCi projector, now he has seen your Thor?
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu June 08, 2017, 05:42:05 AM
For sure he will consider how he can improve picture quality in the future but this is nothing that will be discuss public I think.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Thu June 08, 2017, 09:45:16 AM
Just wondering if commercial operators see sense in going with the premium HC projectors. For commercial operators commercial reasons drive decisions, not just the pure image and sound quality. The theater section, where one would expect the story on the capabilities and features, equipment used for each theater to be told, on his company's website, is still empty. So I have no clue what kind of Barco's he using at the moment. I am sure it is (way) better than average, looks like a small chain with an interested owner/operator, that cares for the exhibition quality. Taking the time and exerting the effort to go visit the state of the art demo, alone is proof of that.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Mon June 12, 2017, 03:31:31 PM
I got new Thor Alchemy Plus Software today.

With it it is now possible to playback 4K 60P content in "4:2:0" that was before not possible at all.
So all consumer 4K 60P Cams like the Sony AX1 or the new Panasonic GH5 can playback the content now direct from the camera by using there internal 4K 60P HDMI output.

Next Software will be likely to add some functions about to adjust near black level in 4K HDR content and
also for all other content.

Not sure Art will see this when he visit me next week as this will likely need some days more but lets see.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Mon June 12, 2017, 05:41:45 PM
Wolfgang what 4K 'broadcast' sources do you have? You mentioned Sky Deutschland, any of the other (demo) channels on satellite, or cable? Is Sky offering only doing a number of Bundes Liga matches in 4K or has it started broadcasting movies and series in 4K, by now? Last year it said it would expands its offering this year, but I have no insight to current schedule. As broadcast and streaming sources are all 4:2:0.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Tue June 13, 2017, 03:56:00 AM
Sky Satellite.

Yes main event was one time a week a Bundesliga soccer game + some Champions League games.
Most looks very nice with a big quality plus compare to there bad HD broadcast.
But I prefer to see movies on UHD 4K Disc so I not use Sky 4K many times.
So far I know all is in 4:2:0.
Since it was now easy to watch direct from the hdmi out from my cameras 4k 60p I will do this more often.
150MB 4K 60P content even if it was only in Rec. 709 looks very nice and as i say often better than a medium good 4K UHD Disc!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu June 22, 2017, 05:36:04 PM
Good News!

There was not any HDMI Cable longer than 10 Meter that works with UHD 4K Disc in HDR Rec.2020 24P AND 60P.

I have try in the past a fiber wire cable 18 meters but it not works together with the Barco Thor and the new Alchemy Plus.

Now I found a new one 30 meters long with no USB Power supply at both ends only the normally HDMI Connector and it works without any problems even with 4K UHD Disc in HDR Rec.2020 in 24 AND 60P!

This 30 meters should cover 99.99% of all setups and looks like a perfect solution.

I will test this cable after Art was here with his Family a bit more in details over the next days and if this test runs well I will post here the details of this cable.

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri June 23, 2017, 02:20:12 PM
I have test some more time this cable and it was
not show any problem with any material I feed with it till UHD 4K HDR Rec. 2020 at 60P!

The cable calls:
"BD Trade hybrid HDMI cable 18G"

It will be available from 7,5 to 50 Meters! (25 to 165 feet) in future may even longer.

I know 3 Companys in Germany where you can order it.
If someone is Interessent in it here are the 3 Companys with there mail Address:
Heimkino Klohs: info@heimkinoklohs.de
Heimkinoraum group: info@heimkinoraum.de
Grobi: info@grobi.tv

But I have to warn you.
Even with this good HDMI Cable "Arrival" UHD 4K Disc will look still very bad picture quality wise  :) but the movie itself is a good movie!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed June 28, 2017, 06:07:39 AM
Uwe did my Thor have a sister or brother now in Germany?
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: dirk goetze on Wed June 28, 2017, 10:53:06 AM
Loki there are you ?

p.s. sorry Wolfgang i could not resist
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed June 28, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
No I not mean this smaller Barco one I mean a 2th Thor Projector.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: dirk goetze on Fri June 30, 2017, 07:44:29 AM
Sorry it was just a joke from movie geek, that doesn't what a "smaller" Loki even exisist
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: donaldk on Fri June 30, 2017, 04:35:21 PM
Wolfgang have you seen the higher resolution photospectrometer in action yet? Does its use improve the image quality compared to calibration with the default photospectrometer?
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sun July 02, 2017, 04:32:03 AM
I think the difference "in practice" what we human can see between adjust a Projector using a low resolution photo spectrometer and a high resolution photo spectrometer is invisible for a human eye.
My shot view is : In theory better but not visible.

I compare it to kelvin.
There are maybe 10 people in the world that can tell for sure a difference between 50 kelvin up and down.
Now you have an instrument that can tell you 5 kelvin up and down....
That is way below what a normally viewer can detect it is invisible.

May the public what closes they are wearing in what color is more important than this.

But if you have it use it it will be for sure not show any negative things but I doubt that you can see a difference between low and high resolution photo spectrometer so there is no must.

May someday I will get someone come and have one with him and do a calibration with it.
Then I will have 2 color files and can switch between them and then I can rate.
But even if I can see a slight difference in color may my taste tells me use this or this one……
Manufacturer of such high resolution photo spectrometer will see this likely a bit different :).

There are a thousand of other more important things why the Barco Thor show a so good picture and blow everything else away you can buy with money today.

BTW I  change my screen!
I will try the new superlarge V6 Material Screen Material that final arrive at the manufacturer.
Hope it not show any bugs and hope it was the same as before when I have test a 4 meter version that it kills 90% of the speckle and improve cr.
May I will do it in front of my existing one not sure jet.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Kaaga on Tue July 04, 2017, 04:30:12 PM
Is there any chance in the future that Barco will start to  support Dolby Vision through firmware update? 
Do You have Despicable me 1-2 UHD or Power Rangers UHD  disk to test it with your  LG OLED- TV-s and then with Barco...
It would be interesting to hear your opinion about  Dolby Vision and quality comparison with HDR10.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed July 05, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
Kaaga welcome to this forum!

“Is there any chance in the future that Barco will start to  support Dolby Vision through firmware update? 
Do You have Despicable me 1-2 UHD or Power Rangers UHD  disk to test it with your  LG OLED- TV-s and then with Barco...
It would be interesting to hear your opinion about  Dolby Vision and quality comparison with HDR10.”

I do not think Dolby Vision will be Supported with the Barco Thor at least not any day soon.
What likely will Supported is the HDR + that Samsung and Netflix possible or hopefully other will use soon.
They do also HDR adaptive …..Sequences by Sequences  so not like the standard HDR one Setting for HDR for the whole movie that was a bad idea from the beginning in my view!
So this HDR+ may will also come to the Thor Pr. some day.

About your last question that is not easy to answer.
There are so many issues that made a UHD Disc looks good.
HDR is just one of them.
There are many UHD Disc with a 2K Master that not looks any better or if only a little than the BD 2K Version.
For Projectors HDR is very difficult to show with today’s technic.
Some weeks ago a VIP Person from Cinema visit me after we know each other for over 10 years!
He say that he saw the best HDR Demo ever after I demo him Lucy from UHD Disc in HDR from the Barco Thor.
He say that was a very nice HDR that the Barco Thor can do likely the best he ever saw.
I hope the studios will adopt soon a HDR that are based not only on one Setting for HDR for the whole movie it need to be adaptive sequence by sequence.
If this is Dolby or something else it make not a hug difference for me but Dolby have beside this HDR also
12 Bit and other more improved specification that are not bad.
If Dolby Vision will be widely adopted will be a good question but HDR+ is a very welcome thing that I hope will comes soon.
As I say I think I have hear something that Barco will supported this in the near future with a Software update but as this Standard is not jet final it will be take some time.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Mon July 10, 2017, 04:35:08 PM
Just for fun some real screenshots from one of my favorite older movies
 
"2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY"

Sad the 2K BD version was not very top in Picture Quality even this movie was one of the very rare
true 70mm Productions.

I hope for a 4K UHD HDR Release that looks better.

Please note the pictures are made in 4K but the source was a 2k BD that was not so good.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: MrPixels on Mon July 10, 2017, 05:03:39 PM
Nice saturated colors, flesh tones look natural. The high ANSI is very visible in the pictures, in a strange way it almost hurts your eyes. Very nice!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Tue July 11, 2017, 08:09:32 AM
New XXL V6 Screen arrive after some custom delays.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Leo Nolan on Wed July 19, 2017, 04:43:29 AM
Hello, I have been following your journey on this projector since the very beginning, and all I can say is thanks for sharing it with us. As you have an oled display and i have seen one in person I know how amazing It looks. From your subject opinion, how does the Thor picture quality compares with the oled's? Is the Thor's picture quality as good ad the oled's?
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Wed July 19, 2017, 05:23:54 AM
Hi Leo welcome to this forum.

Are you following since the beginning here or as well in AVS Forum?
I ask because I think have post it long time ago at AVS this question.

But anyway I try to do it short with the view from today.

Let say it in this way.
If you say the OLED is the best picture today and I think it is then the Barco Thor is the best Projector that comes very close to this picture quality from OLED and in some details he is better than OLEDs.

Pro about Thor:
-Thor have better colors than the OLED
-Thor have much bigger picture than the OLED
-Thor have depends on the screen size more FTL on the screen than OLED can do
-Thor have at least if not more ANSI Cr. than the OLED
-Thor do 3D at full 4K resolution OLED can not do anymore 3D at all

Con about the Thor:
-Thor have less good on off cr. compare to OLED
-Thor is big an heavy
-Thor need some Crestron to drive it as it was to complex for the normally user

But most limit for OLED is now the size.
77" is not a big picture is only a big TV!
A good home cinema should have at least a 4 meter wide screen.

Most difference if you look "only" about the picture quality then the good 6000:1 on of cr. ratio that the Thor have can not match with the infinity on off cr. OLED have.
But this is only weak part in other parameters see above the Thor is the better display.

What is for me always amazing how sharp and "clear" the Thor picture was.
It is not only the high ansi cr. there are more issues responsible for this amazing good picture the Thor have.

So to answer your question short yes the Thor is very close to the OLED in some ways even better and only in on off cr. not as good.
All in all more positive to the Thor.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Leo Nolan on Wed July 19, 2017, 03:42:18 PM
Thanks for the welcome man!
I've followed your thread since avs forum, and it is very impressive, you probably have the best home cinema ever.
Thanks for answering my question, it was very clear. It is amazing to think that a screen that big has comparable or even better picture quality to a 70" tv.
By the way, 2001 is also one of my favorite movies, and it looks extremely nice on your Thor. I've learnt that the master for the blu ray was done from an old 35mm film print, instead of 70mm. I think the image in your Thor really recalls a 35mm film projection of the print. Hopefully, some day there will be a new master 70mm master of the film, I am sure it would look stunning in your Thor.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu July 20, 2017, 04:10:38 AM
Nice to hear but best is to much.
As I have post I made no compromise in picture quality so I build a black box witch not looks at nice as some with fancy items decorated home cinema as I like to concentrate about the picture.
Nothing should take your attention away from the picture at the screen this was my goal and everything
have to  subordinate to that.

As 2001 will have next year the 50th University it is possible that we will get a new scan hopefully from a good 70mm Version.

The fifth Element UHD is on the way to me and should arrive tomorrow.
This is one UHD Disc I waiting for together with the new Terminator 2 Version in 3D and UHD.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: dirk goetze on Thu July 20, 2017, 06:16:31 AM
Hello Wolfgang,

i saw the avs review of both Besson 5th and Leon and they looks promising. Looking forward to your Report!
According to your nice 2001 Picture and 70mm notes.

Not miss to see Nolans "Dunkirk" 75 min shout in IMAX 1:1,43 in 4k Laser in Berlin next week
Starting today in Pragues Flora IMAX in glory 15/70 mm 1:1,43, but i will see it in german...

heres a link to nolans format guide
Christopher Nolan's 'Dunkirk' Gets Massive 70mm Release — Here's Where It's Playing (http://nofilmschool.com/2017/07/christopher-nolan-dunkirk-70mm-release)

best Dirk

Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu July 20, 2017, 08:30:09 AM
I do not give anyting to AVS reports as there since years people talk about good picture quality from the BD or other source material.
More than one time I found this "so good Picture" very bad with my projectors.

Often later I found out that the people report about "this very good picture" have a 50" Plasma and sit 4 or more times the screen wide back!
In this setup everything including VHS Tapes looks good :)

I will be wait to see this new Nolans Movie in UHD at my home with a "perfect picture" :)
I am a big fan of Nolans Movies most of them I see it more than one time.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Leo Nolan on Sun July 23, 2017, 01:05:25 AM
Have you seen the IMAX with laser system tho? I haven't but I've heard wonderful things. It would be fun to know how it compares with your thor.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sun July 23, 2017, 05:48:53 PM
How you can compare?

Very difficult
-not same room
-not same screen size
-not same screen surface
-not same content and so on...........

Commercial Cinema need a exit light I not ....
Commercial Cinema need because of fire protection a port hole glass that kills a lot of quality I not.

So there are many other parameters where it is unfair to compare and I have not seen IMAX myself.
I hear it looks good.
I know a friend that was in Germany Sinsheim in a IMAX and I think he like it.
So far I remember right they have 2 Projectors so 3D motion looks very good I am sure.
He like the picture a lot he told me.

I saw Dolby Vision one time.
It was a nice good picture (a normally 2D movie in 2K) bright with very good blacks ( on off cr.) and good color.
But the Ansi Cr. was for sure not as good as the Thor.

A big plus as I say was to have this Projector in a private room so no need for port hole glass that kills all what is in a 4K Source inside and you can if you like design the room how you like it and with no need for a exit sign or other compromises the Cinemas have to do.

Some VIP visit me some days ago and he saw everything.
Not sure I have report about it already or not but he told me it was the best Image he saw so far.
He know IMAX and Dolby Vision so this say a lot.

5th Element UHD Disc not arrive me on time for the weekend so sad..... but hope for tomorrow.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Thu July 27, 2017, 06:55:08 PM
Yesterday something exiting happen.

I got after long time a first 4K3D “””Video””” content in 24P and the Thor play it back with not any problem.

Content was coming from Günter Peschke.
No wonder that the Hollywood Reporter call him the 3D Brain from Germany in an older edition.
Thanks also to the Guy that convert the RAW Material record with 2 Red Dragon to a DCI 4K 3D 24P Stream.

The Barco 4K Laser Projectors include the Thor are so far I know the only Projectors in the world that can playback this
4K 3D content in 24P and 30P.
This content looks unbelievable good nothing I have seen in my live match this quality!

Sad is that the Barco Thor had a bug that makes the playback a bit time consuming.
When you playback DCI Content and switch to other content like BD in 2D or 3D or UHD Disc the color from
DCI Content is still on but then the Barco show a wrong color as the source is not anymore DCI content!
Much too much red the picture is not watchable.
The only temporary solution is to switch after you finish to playback DCI Content to a BD Marco or any other Macro than is NOT DCI and shut the Pr. down and start up again.
Then you have the right color again till you will playback again DCI Content but it takes about close to 10 minutes.
Switching manual the color did not work.

Open the picture in full 4K at least you can guess a bit how good it will be looks live.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Cinetom on Thu July 27, 2017, 08:16:47 PM
Colors look amazing, WOW!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Leo Nolan on Fri July 28, 2017, 03:00:05 AM
Hello, this really does look amazing, the color is stunning. I am wondering about the quality of 4k blu rays compared to dcp. Will the 4k blu ray of a movie look noticeably worse than the dip version?
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri July 28, 2017, 04:25:04 AM
A good UHD BD "can" look as good as a DCI Content with not any big visible Differences.

In the past comparing a 2K 2D BD to a DCI File the DCI File was always better.
Easy to see that color was so much better.

Now with UHD Disc this is very likely not anymore the case.

It is on my agenda to get some DCI 4K Material that I can get also in 4K UHD Disc.
And if both are good mastered I expect a very similar picture.



Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Fri July 28, 2017, 11:54:17 AM
I have test "The 5th Element" on UHD Disc.

It looks great for such an old in 35mm movie!
Colors where nice and all other things looks also good.
Sony did a good job and not remove in some sequences the noise that are coming from the 35mm Film itself
as other Studios do from time to time and this is not good.

All the computer animations are of course still up convert 2K Material but all the rest look very nice.
If you are a fan of this Movie you should get this disc as it show the Movie better than ever.

I hear it was sold out at Amazon US so looks like there are more people there that take care about quality than some company’s think
and this is a good news and makes me happy!
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: dirk goetze on Thu August 03, 2017, 10:05:03 AM
Hello Wolfgang,

I'm curios what's going on with your new Fabric ?
Away from the fact if you will replace your former screen,what are your general impression ?

Best Regards dirk

P.S. I know you 1 in a million who can say I will wait and watch the movie in better /best quality AT HOME, but the 75 minutes 1,43: 1 "nativ" IMAX in Dunkirk is worth a try and I think the chance to see it that way, will not come so fast in the near future. I leave the IMAX Berlin very impressed !
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: w.mayer on Sat August 05, 2017, 08:58:30 PM
As i have post i got the big roll but it will take some time as i dont know how i mount it and how i do it exactly.
As this material offers me to put the speakers behind i think to may do this but then i have to rebuild the box for the speakers as i need it less deep.
But may i will do this new screen just in front of my old screen.
Disatvantage then new screen will be about 0,7 meters more close to the distance we normally watch movies (the secound middle row).
Picture will be about good 15% dimmer. Not a Problem at all for 2d ( need do dim down laser as it was still to bright) but for 3d maximum will be only about 24ftl anymore ( with Isco 1,25 anamorpnic lens) :).
Advantage if something i not like about the new screen than i simply can remove the new screen and have my old screen back.
Speckling will be reduce to almost 0 even for 3d where speckling is more visible than in 2d.

Think it will be 1-2 months to deside and do it.
Will report about it here.
Title: Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
Post by: Leo Nolan on Mon August 07, 2017, 04:10:36 AM

Hello Dirk, I haven't yet had a chance to see the imax with laser system and I know the one in Berlin is one of the few there are, how was the picture quality?