Author Topic: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?  (Read 7892 times)

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Offline DCI forum

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #90 on: Fri September 01, 2017, 08:50:40 AM »
Wolfgang Deutsche Telekom is expanding its 4K offer, with a new box shipping this fall. Interesting enough for you to add to your list of 4K sources?

Netflix 4K is still rare in Europe, Sky is already available direct from Sky;-).

Der neue Media Receiver MR 401 kommt im Herbst auf den Markt und unterstützt den Ultra-HD-Standard mit einer bis zu vierfach höheren Auflösung als Full HD. Das passende Videoangebot will die Telekom dann auch gleich liefern, zum Start sollen UHD-Inhalte von Videoload, Netflix, YouTube und Sky verfügbar sein – teils natürlich kostenpflichtig. Darüber hinaus verspricht die Telekom einen UHD-Kanal namens „Insight TV“ mit Inhalten aus Technik, Abenteuer, Reisen und Extremsportarten. Zudem soll ab der kommenden Saison pro Spieltag jeweils ein Spiel der Deutschen Eishockey Liga ohne Zusatzkosten in UHD-Auflösung gezeigt werden. Für das Live-Streaming dieser Inhalte ist ein MagentaZuhause L-Tarif mit bis zu 100 MBit/s im Download nötig, auf Abruf verfügbare Inhalte stehen für alle EntertainTV-Kunden zur Verfügung.

Ergänzend vermeldet die Telekom auch den Erwerb zusätzlicher Medienrechte. So werden vom 4. Oktober an die Krimiserie „Cardinal“, die Comedy-Serie „Better Things“ die für den Emmy nominierte US-Serie „The Handmaid’s Tale“ in Deutschland ausschließlich über EntertainTV verfügbar sein. Zusätzliche Partnerschaften mit den Studios Fox und UFA integrieren Serien wie „The Walking Dead“, „Prison Break“, „24“ oder „How I met your mother“ und viele deutsche Filmklassiker und Fernsehfilme in EntertainTV.

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #91 on: Mon September 25, 2017, 12:48:40 PM »
Likely tomorrow Barco will send me a new Software for the Thor.

Not sure jet what exactly will be new but if there are news I will post it.

I like to report that I was in my holiday house for some weeks.
There I have a Sony VW520 Pr. a good looking 4K LCOS Pr.

But now as my Thor got all the improvements (2 times cr. improvement and the new Alchemy+) and I get used to this picture quality for a long time I was a bit
surprised how the picture from the Sony 520 Pr. looks.

When I comes back and fire up the Barco Thor Pr. I saw a way better picture what a big difference.
I was not expecting this huge difference.
Of course I need to consider that the Sony cost a fraction of a Barco Thor and no question for the money the Sony VP520 cost it show a wonderful good picture
but it was for me very surprising how much differences I can see after I adopt to the Barco Thor Projector Picture Quality for longer time.

The Thor in my small holiday home cinema is for sure not anything I consider but it will be interesting to compare in few weeks the Sony VW 760 (in US the VW 885)
to the Barco Balder Pr.
I will be not comparing the existing version with the Rec 709 color wheel and wait for the new DCI Color wheel when it became available that can do 100% DCI color otherwise this compare made not
much sense.
Everbody that saw the Lokki or Baldur saw a more or less Rec. 709 Color Picture with may just a little more color that Rec. 709 had.

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #92 on: Wed September 27, 2017, 09:04:22 AM »
Yesterday I got new Software from Barco that fix the issue I had report that when you playback DCI Content and switch back for sample to 4K UHD HDR the color was wrong displayed.

This bug is now gone.

On top of this Barco fix some minor color bug that was there when you playback UHD 4K HDR Material in Rec. 2020 color space.
This improve the color even if it was too small for me to see a difference between now and before.

Offline lygren

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #93 on: Thu September 28, 2017, 03:21:12 PM »
Looking forward to your impressions with the UltraWeave "XXL" V6 when and if you are able to figure out how to install it Wolfgang! :) Glad to hear Barco is tweaking the Thor software continuously as well, those guys are really pro´s!

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #94 on: Thu September 28, 2017, 07:22:59 PM »
Looking forward to your impressions with the UltraWeave "XXL" V6 when and if you are able to figure out how to install it Wolfgang! :) Glad to hear Barco is tweaking the Thor software continuously as well, those guys are really pro´s!

Me too!
I was at a long holiday comes back very sick have to tread the sickness and I am almost on my way to Far East and Japan so time is a huge problem.
Than I have not jet design how I will do it but I will have some time this weekend and next week where I hopefully can do a bit more on this.
I have some first plan already and may one of them is a easy solution where I put the Screen about
70 cm in front of the existing screen.
Advantage will be no need to modify 3 front speakers and existing screen can be as a back up behind.
But in this case I am not  sure as it was a huge 21 sq-meter big white wall behind the V6 if this is not any problem Jon?
A other issue is the distance when I move the whole screen to the seating 0,7 meter my max. screen size will be less big but I sit more close.
All this have to take into consideration and this is not a easy thing to deside.
As no one knows the outcome today I can not do the big change.

But I can assure you I am more impatient to see the result than anybody else. :)

Offline lygren

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #95 on: Fri September 29, 2017, 02:16:38 AM »
It´s certainly one HUGE piece of screen fabric that you´d be working with there Wolfgang, but you might consider using the grip rails that were included (grey ones), and did I send you that Fabricmate pro tucking tool? Hmm, perhaps if you just glue the grip rails on the SIDE of the frame (I do recommend Casco XtremFix glue to fix the grip rails though though, but I do not believe I included one, perhaps you can get this locally...? Really, there is no better glue anywhere in the world; those Swedes knows their business - http://www.casco.eu/global/casco/?pc=95&p=602&series=25 - please let me know if I should send you some tubes!), pull the fabric around the entire frame and tuck it in there? That would leave you with no border framing, just a huge white surface, but in such case you would have enough fabric to both replace the existing one if you would decide to, or also very easily just remove it?

As for having a white surface on the direct back; should not a problem, the integrated black backing eats up most of the light spilled through the fabric (and the little that would return is also absorbed on the way back through that black backing), and we have a number of customers that just attach these frames directly to white walls without any issues so I don´t think it would be a problem.
« Last Edit: Fri September 29, 2017, 03:21:40 AM by lygren »

Offline lygren

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #96 on: Fri September 29, 2017, 03:30:29 AM »
...hmm, come to think of it, attaching the rails on the sides of the frame might not look very good after you rearrange (or remove...;)) the fabric later on... If you have enough fabric available it might also be a consideration to glue the grip rails on the back of the frame somewhere.

We are also making out new black grip rails now (the one you have received are grey), I can have new sets shipped as soon as they are ready. They are available in both 15mm and 25mm widths, the 25mm are for the new "MotoMask" frames and might be better suited to properly rig this big a frame. Still, we have used the 15mm ones (the ones you have) on quite large frames previously too (5m wide 16:9), and they should work fine too though.

Sorry for the OT though, I´m sure we can continue these discussions via e-mail or another thread if you like! :)

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #97 on: Sun October 01, 2017, 07:07:21 AM »
I have measured and study yesterday how I can install the new V6 screen.

With the new V6 screen in front of my old one and without changing the speaker the minimum distance must be 65cm to the existing screen.
Sad this will decrease the picture size from today 7 meter to 6.7 meter.
But as the new screen will be more close to the viewing position I will have a slightly bigger viewing angle then before and the ratio " viewing distance to screen size" will be going up from today about 1.0 times to 0,94 times.
Perfect to see full 3840 pixels when you watch a true 4k and not 2k to 4K unconverted UHD Disc.

Also lumen will be thanks to the slightly smaller screen good 8% more and this covers about half what the V6 material have less gain compare to my Harkness Hall Matt Preview screen material.

Most people that saw/hear my setup wonder why I never talk much about sound quality and many do not expect this very good sound.
There are some reason for this.
First I am sure the "Picture tells the Story" meaning picture is much more important than sound.
Than I have lost my right hearing 100% almost 10 years ago so I cannot detect anymore where sound comes from.
So if its 1.0 or 7.2 for me it makes not any difference "for me".
I say as a joke 1 speaker in the back for me is the same as a 7 or more channel system.
But I still can hear if sound is good or bad.
So when everything runs well with this new screen I can put my 3 front speaker in a much much better position and this will dramatically increase the sound quality as now my 3 front speaker are in the worst place you can put them.
I have to do it otherwise the speakers are in the picture.

Here a measurement that show how the V6 Material act when “my speakers” are behind.
Turquoise no screen material the other colors show 1/5/10/15 and 20 cm distance to the screen.
The more reflection the more distance.
Very nice the screen material was very stable how I use it at around up from 80Hz and the decrease is only 2 to 3 db!
Ideal distance is till to 10cm and I plan about 5 cm if this works.
« Last Edit: Sun October 01, 2017, 07:08:19 AM by w.mayer »

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #98 on: Tue October 03, 2017, 03:03:09 PM »
I watch today "Guardians of the Galaxy 2" in 3D Blue Ray.

A fun movie with a good 3D Picture even if some sequences like the opening show too much 3D in faraway objects that was not really how we see in reality.
But all other was very nice good colors very very clean with no visible noise at all.
Picture sharpness and detail varies a bit it was not the whole movie at the same high level but nothing to complain the disc was one of the very good 3D BDs.
A Reference 3D Disc together with Star Trek Into Darkness.

If the quality from a 3D BD is good like this one I will buy in future only the 3D BD.
The 3D Version even if it is only Rec. 709 color and only 2K and no HDR looks to me better overall compare to some may only 2k to 4k upcon UHD Disc that have only slightly better color and HDR that many Projectors not can make good visible.

When I read in other forums looks like it is not only me that see it this way.
Most of the People that had a LG 4K OLED that can do 3D (till 2016 Models) agree with me as well.

Since last Software update from Barco it looks like there was some HDMI Handshake problems there.
Some time when I playback a Movie like for sample today a 3D BD and change the Disc at my Oppo UHD Player to a UHD Disc no picture was displayed.
Hit the bottom Resolution at the RC and change there between Auto and the other Settings brings the Picture back.
Let’s see what cause this but as I not have change any other thing it is likely that the Barco do this with the latest Software.
I have never ever see this before and I was using the Pr. a lot since long time.

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #99 on: Tue October 03, 2017, 07:34:06 PM »
Since today I have only hear about it but today I saw it with my own eyes and this push me to take my  Canon 50 MP camera together with one of the best lens on the market and take pictures from it.

I talk about the UHD 4K Disc Oblivion that many people told me that the BD show "more" details than the UHD Version!
I doubt it as I can only confirm from he past that most 2K to 4K upcon UHDs are show same Details as BD but never less.
But take a look at both pictures!
Copy them in full 4K to a Folder and compare it with a 4K Monitor in 1:1 Pixel and you will see yourself.
Please note that the Picture Preview not show at all any difference as resolution is to low!
So you have to compare the full resolution picture.

Pictures was taken in over 8K from the Screen and downconvert to 4K.
A bit sad it show some moire effect but ignore it that bug was sometimes there when the Camera is in to good focus.
Better move your attention to how much less details are visible with the UHD Version!

My Barco Thor had not any processing at all inside and the Oppo UHD Player was output the Signal as
"Source direct".
Camera had for both pictures fix settings.


« Last Edit: Thu October 05, 2017, 04:11:13 PM by w.mayer »

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #100 on: Wed October 04, 2017, 05:09:45 PM »
I did tonight a compare and short Review from the first Dolby Vision UHD Disc "Transformers The last Knight"

First I try my 77" LG OLED the 2016 one the “only ever produced model” with 3D and Dolby Vision both together!

First it not plays back DV the LG never say at the Info Box that it get DV as he should.
Then I bypass the Denon Receiver and goes direct from the Oppo UHD Player into the LG and bingo this works.
After some basic adjustments I did in the LG ( switch motion compensation and all the stupid filters to of and decrease detail to 0 ) the picture I see was outstanding!
HDR was "big big visible" color rich and brilliant and cr. well black is real black what a wonderful picture no bug just perfect.

I was very excited to see this disc at my big screen down with the Barco Thor and I expect a less good picture but the Barco Thor surprise me here.
Even if I playback just the 4K UHD HDR Rec. 2020 basic core of this disc first surprise was the color.
The Barco looks may even a bit better than the OLED!
The reason was that the LG OLED can do about 95% of the DCI color space the Barco Thor can do 100% and even more.
It was good visible as the Barco can do a perfect very deep Red so color wise the Barco was a bit better than the OLED what a surprise.

On Off cr. well off course the OLED is better no question.
ANSI cr. I am sure the Barco Thor and the OLED are very similar.
But my new V6 screen is waiting…..

But overall even the 77" was only a big TV the 7 Meter screen was Cinema not TV.
A huge difference.
All in all the Picture this disc have is a good Reference Material in the same league as Lucy UHD Disc either in Dolby Vision or at the basic UHD HDR Core.

I do not think we will see anytime soon a Pr. that can do full Dolby Vision Specs but I am sure DV is today the best Source Material when the Disc is really good made.
May in future LED Walls can do full Dolby Vision and this will be looking perfect.
I have not any doubt that Dolby Vision is the best possible Source Material we can get today and it is a bit sad that we have no Projectors for this format anytime soon.
But I can still dream about a giant LED Wall or Wall Paper OLED to seeing this picture quality hopefully in 3D as well.

« Last Edit: Thu October 05, 2017, 04:09:08 PM by w.mayer »

Offline w.mayer

Re: Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?
« Reply #101 on: Tue October 10, 2017, 06:38:56 AM »
About the Oblivion compare UHD Version BD Version.

As 2 people report to me that they can not see any big difference in the 2 pictures I must clear up something.
I really wonder why they not see this differences till I found out that both compare the preview picture from it and not the full resolution full 4k version I have post.
So please download both pictures in full 3840 resolution and put them in a folder and compare it in 1:1 pixel without any scaling with a 4K Monitor or TV.
Then you see it not with the picture preview.