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Author Topic: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE  (Read 10063 times)

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Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« on: Tue December 23, 2014, 03:30:44 AM »
Moons of Neptune are TO BE existing famous installations where we may have supplied one brand of components , kaleidescape, teranex, Barco, Ada, and other , Typical Do It Your self cinema aficionados where we contributed something useful we hope..

ENTER ATMOS, QUESTED, and Trinnov 3D remapping.

The rave reviews from super-perfectionist Dr. Jeff is now resonating with chatter in the UK forums and as far as Malasya and Thailand, the message is clear, even the most modest of the Quested speakers are powerhouses  ideal for a 32 channel Trinnov Altitude systems being rolled out as we speak.

So it was kind of a shoe in that an existing 7.1 wisdom 75 with dual wisdom monster subs be augmented with the hot commodity RIBBON speakers in the 3d sound era.

The owner must have read this forum because he seems to trust the atmos/trinnov/quested approach pioneered in Russia's ALBIORIX. And hammered down with Brett Crocket and his backroom labrats. ;D The system should also do Auro/DTS ULTRA perfectly as well.

At Cineramax we want a screen that is either wall to wall floor to ceiling or both, TRITON is BOTH a 21 foot wide cinemascope no less.


Linkback: http://dci-forum.com/d-cinema-home/11/triton-first-moon-neptune/266/
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:53:35 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #1 on: Tue December 23, 2014, 06:29:03 AM »
Cinema Triton

Lt24
6 heights
6 sides

Lt8iw
6 ceiling

Lt8
4 widths

2 rear 18 subs on channel 17 make wisdom subs 1 channel.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #2 on: Tue December 23, 2014, 01:16:20 PM »
changes were dismissed sticking to all ribbon speakers for homogeneity.
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:41:21 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE a Width Channel Remapping Challenge
« Reply #3 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 12:24:25 AM »
This Statement by Tony Grimani is one where we more than agree, the width channel is crucial:

"Wide speakers, placed at about 60 degrees from center, are arguably more important than the heavily hyped ceiling element. One of the most challenging areas of the sound field to reproduce correctly is the transition from the screen speakers to the sidewall surrounds. All too often, pans jump abruptly from one to the other instead of moving smoothly. Wide speakers address this by adding a physical sound source between the two points rather than relying entirely on phantom imaging. Ceiling speakers (particularly toward the front of the room) perform a similar function in the vertical plane. They create smooth pans from the screen speakers over the audience and eventually to the back wall of surrounds. Thus far, vertical flyovers in mixes are less common than the ubiquitous off-screen side pans; hence the reason I would prioritize width speakers rather than ceiling speakers.

HE ALSO SAID
As with any speaker, placement, coverage, and aiming are critical. Wides should go at an angle that is roughly midway between the left or right speaker and the first surround speaker on the side wall. In most rooms, this will be about +/- 55-60 degrees from front center. If you’re dealing with a narrow room, be careful that this doesn’t put the wides excessively close to the seats. Remember, you don’t want to blast people in the face. Most screen speakers have wide horizontal dispersion, but it never hurts to confirm they are wide enough to cover the entire audience side to side from a closer distance. It should be self-evident by this point, but you must aim the wides at the audience like a screen speaker. Don’t just sink them flush in the wall to fire across the room at each other. This would put the entire audience at an extreme off-axis angle with poor frequency response and spray sound in parts of the room it’s not needed.

The first pair of ceiling speakers should go midway along the lines between the primary listening position and the L/R screen speakers–perhaps slightly closer together. If you opt for a second pair, they should go over the audience the same distance apart as the first pair. The ceiling speakers must also cover the entire audience and avoid spraying sound unnecessarily into places no one is sitting."
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 01:19:20 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #4 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 01:26:48 AM »
Here are the existing Left Center Rights and side surrounds that will stay put.

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/pdfs/datasheets/Wisdom_L75_datasheet.pdf

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

THIS IS NOT CRAZY-IT WILL WORK 100%
« Reply #5 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 03:51:46 AM »
Digest my proposed implementation of 4 different variants of Trinnov Remapping to create the ultimate 3d formats soundfields.Optimized for Atmos, Auro, DtsU and to deal with a beautiful view on one side.of the cinema.

Before you start screaming window theatments they are there. Simply sometimes is more civilized watching a movie with the lights of the city below.

View simulated please no fact checking Donald ;D.

Remapping Variant-1 Robust Width Channels properly positioned-indispensable.

Remapping Variant-2 Variable positioning of the foremost screen height channels
 from behind the screen to forward of the screen to satisfy ATMOS, AURO, and DTS ULTRA requirements.

Remapping Variant-3 Create additional surround speaker locations at surround speaker level floating virtual speakers in front of view.

Remapping Variant-4 For Auro side height speaker angle correction.
 
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 05:19:49 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

pdf for legibility
« Reply #6 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:06:15 AM »
pdf for legibility
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 05:02:38 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Final Updated Behind the screen height and widths
« Reply #7 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:36:20 AM »
Accepted as excellent implementation by both Atmos residential and commercial technical departments.
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:50:18 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #8 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:51:38 AM »
6 sides, 10 heights, 4 channel for biamped widths plus one rear sub...uhm

Time to look at the 4 surround l75 crossovers to be handled outside altitude.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

You may recognize John our engineer pictured above with Brett Crocket from.....
« Reply #9 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 05:31:22 AM »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON FINAL LAYOUT
« Reply #10 on: Mon January 05, 2015, 07:52:09 AM »
FINAL

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON FINAL WITH REAR SUBS
« Reply #11 on: Mon January 05, 2015, 08:32:34 AM »
7 CHANNELS BI AMPED TOTAL=14 TRINNOV CHANNELS

FRONT 2 SUBS -ONE CHANNEL 1 TRINNOV CHANNEL
REAR 2 SUBS-ONE CHANNEL 1 TRINNOV CHANNEL

18 LT-24'S 16 CHANNEL TOTAL 32, CHECK!

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE HISTORY MADE ON Jan 6
« Reply #12 on: Wed January 07, 2015, 03:11:59 AM »
In an hour long conference call encompassing three time zones The client, Curt Hoyt and I hammered down all the details of this historic full 32 channel implementation AUTOCADS to follow.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

DTSX- MAY IMPACT LAYOUT
« Reply #13 on: Fri January 09, 2015, 03:15:35 AM »
HERE ARE THE NEW DTSX CEILING HEIGHTS

Even though this was a circular room, it's clear the exact same Auro approach.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #14 on: Fri January 09, 2015, 04:46:16 AM »
http://livedesignonline.com/blog/adaptive-technologies-unveils-stargrid-mounting-system-overhead-cinema-surround-speakers

Unique Speaker Grid Paves the Way for New Cinema Surround Sound Experience

SIGNAL HILL, CA, FEBRUARY 12, 2013 — Adaptive Technologies Group, comprised of Allen Products, ATM Fly-ware and Adaptive Video Walls and Displays, and a premier provider of state-of-the-art rigging and mounting solutions for a wide range of audio and video applications, is proud to introduce its StarGrid™ overhead mounting system, specifically developed for clustering ceiling-mounted cinema speakers. This new system, which supports the latest ceiling speaker formats found in movie theaters, is designed to reduce the cost of multi-channel surround sound installations.

adaptive-stargrid-closeup.jpg

With digital cinema and 3D exhibition becoming state-of-the-art, directors and studios have begun implementing new object-based surround sound technologies, such as the Atmos™ surround format from Dolby Laboratories™ and the Auro format from Barco, to compliment the enhanced visual experience. Recent examples of this include the films Brave, Life of Pi and The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, to name a few, as well as upcoming titles such as Star Trek: Into Darkness. Adaptive’s StarGrid system supports the adoption of such technologies with a safe, easy-to-install ceiling grid that reduces total installation costs and optimizes the installation of surround speakers.

Cinema exhibitors are taking advantage of the StarGrid system and quickly recognizing its impact on safety, ease-of-installation, as well as the confidence and predictability that Adaptive designs bring to each of its theaters.

“The engineering and design behind Adaptive’s StarGrid system has enabled us to complete our overhead installations quickly and confidently in order to meet our client's ever-shrinking installation timelines,” says Adam Peterson, director of technical services, Universal Cinema Services. “While an auditorium is under renovation, it isn’t generating any revenue. The StarGrid allows us to get in and out of an overhead installation fast, in order to help the client get back to selling tickets.”

adaptive-stargrid-closeup-2.jpg

Proper placement and aiming of speakers in a cinema setting is vital to achieving the desired audio experience. Not every facility, however, is designed the same way. To address this, Adaptive has developed a complete beam-to-speaker design that allows the StarGrid system to be easily retrofitted into almost any theater’s space. This system comes with a variety of components that accommodate most building materials and structures, including trusses, beams, pipes and channels. Further design considerations take wire management, sound isolation and seismic conditions into account. Lastly, Adaptive offers a variety of adjustable speaker mounts that accommodate standard cinema speaker models, including those produced by Eastern Acoustic Works (EAW), Electro-Voice, JBL Professional, Klipsch, Meyer Audio and QSC Audio.

adaptive-stargrid-closeup-3.jpg

“With Adaptive’s StarGrid there is finally a structurally engineered ceiling speaker attachment method that’s perfect for cinema,” says Jim Kappus, director of sales and logistics, ACS Enterprises, Inc. “It is a safe and risk-free method for properly installing overhead speakers.”

For this customized solution, Adaptive can provide the installer with a complete ceiling grid design based on facility drawings that includes dimensioned drawings for installation, a bill of materials, working load and safety factors, as well as auditorium-specific recommendations. Theater owners need only provide Adaptive with the drawings (preferably CAD files) of the facility and the placement of any acoustic wall treatment. Adaptive then creates the installation design for installers to follow, detailing the exact location of the ceiling speakers and the grid components that support them. This can also provide support for the submittal of plans for approval.

adaptive-stargrid-cinema-layout.jpg

“It is really exciting to once again be a part of another major cinema technology build-out,” says Paul Allen, CEO, Adaptive Technologies Group. “For decades we have worked with leading theater chains and speaker manufacturers to develop cinema specific surround mounts for walls. With StarGrid, we have created an easy way to safely and efficiently install ceiling surrounds in auditoriums, making the whole process more predictable and less costly for theater owners. Adaptive has had a long history of supporting sound innovations and we are happy to continue this tradition with this latest offering.”

About Adaptive Technologies Group

Adaptive Technologies Group combines the talents and disciplines of Allen Products, ATM Fly-ware and Adaptive Video Walls and Displays, and offers state-of-the art rigging and mounting solutions for a range of audio and video applications. With its combined divisions, Adaptive is a full-service solution provider, by way of the design, development and manufacturing of professionally installed AV mounting and rigging equipment worldwide. Each brand offers its own standard and unique time-saving solutions, best safety practices and unlimited custom designs for any venue, size and application.

In addition to providing a wide selection of popular mounting and rigging solutions, Adaptive is a major resource for hundreds of commonly used and often hard to find rigging hardware and fastener items. Based in Signal Hill, California, all overhead products and parts are made and assembled in the USA. For more information, visit http://adapttechgroup.com.
« Last Edit: Fri January 09, 2015, 09:50:03 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON UNHINGED- 13 more channels to be added
« Reply #15 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 07:46:19 AM »
RE-EDITED for latest design......

Today when he is receiving like 36 boxes of quested speakers and amplifiers my client decides to:

hi peter,

i agreed with my wife to use the wisdoms in the living room, so we can use some more channels and some more speakers :-)


As you know the Triton system was designed using a combination of wisdom audio l75s and 16 channels in 18 speakers lt-24 questeds.

While the ceiling and surround speakers were going to be awesome specially yielding close personal space invasion in it's immersion, the system was failing to meet several important criteria.

That most of the sound emanates from the screen. The wisdoms break up at high spl.

That center channel positioned signals is 80% of the cinema sound. Similar point.

That with so many many speakers possible with a Trinnov or Dolby Cp-850 that no speaker by itself should be sending gratuitous signals were they are not welcomed, the wisdoms like all line sources just blast the perforated screen with redundant and thus confusing extra unnecessary sound. In pro sudio the goal is to better understand the signal, I will thus point the correct speaker array for the specified signal to the MLP Kill zone, but also make sure extreme pointing does not cause cancellations so they are to be semi pointed. Another example of someone sending sound were it is not needed or wanted is quested's own implementation of the first ceiling centre at ISE. Im telling you they make the best speakers but they have 3 years learning about immersiveness required, yeah Guy tells me that he will be talking to Dolby next week, yeah right the blind leading the blind, we had to confront these engineers to fix their recommended layouts. So if you want to know how to the a perfect atmos setup since after all you are spending a small fortune in speakers, amplifiers and cable, you best get your answers here! :D

The lcr's need to be 4x that of the viewing room surrounds and ceiling. Using the best amp for the buck.

That the speakers next to the lcr behind the screen, the first widths and the first heights both in need to be able to transition at full spl x2 the power of surrounds and ceilings.

NEW CRITERIA That if the speaker in the room are vertically mounted in controlled directivity the 1st width speakers behind the screen should be that for small kill zone MLP's or point source for wider kill zones.

NEW CRITERIA first heights should be z8's to have wide dispersion.

NEW CRITERIA that the second and third Widths which are on the side walls will have 2x the power of the surrounds and ceiling speakers while preserving the vertical d'appolito controlled directivity factor.

I am designing the z 4-4 tomorrow stay tuned.....

We can a use the new speakers being introduced at ISE but why do that and compromise the correct bespoke solution based on the existing 18 quested lt-24's.

I am also calling D'agostino because 80% of the sound coming out of the screen should in my view have the complete honesty and ruthless revelation of the Millenium amp which to my ears 10 times better than any other amp out there now that the they have the CINEMA STANDARD.

« Last Edit: Mon February 09, 2015, 11:57:12 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE-lcr choices
« Reply #16 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 08:45:55 PM »
lcr will be either 4 way z16 or the atmos reference studio conceived and requested by me to atmos engineering comments. The code name z112, it sits atop the same zub.

If we go with the z112 then I want to achieve ultimate fidelity hence the millenium derived power amp....

D’Agostino LLC introduces Cinema Standard two- and three-channel amplifiers
New amplifiers with incomparable theater sound and innovative features to be shown at CES Venetian Suite 29-224, January 6 to 9, 2015
CAVE CREEK, AZ, DECEMBER 30, 2014 — D’Agostino LLC, the company founded by famed audio designer Dan D’Agostino, today announced the Cinema Standard, a new multichannel amplifier designed for use in home theaters and stereo systems. Available in two- and three-channel versions, the Cinema Standard delivers the performance and sound quality of D’Agostino’s Momentum amplifiers in a rack-mountable chassis practical for use in home theaters and custom installations. It also offers innovative features that allow it to deliver optimum sound in many different applications.
Each channel of the Cinema Standard delivers 250 watts into 8 ohms, doubling to 500 watts into 4 ohms and again to 1,000 watts into 2 ohms. These power ratings are taken at 0.1% total harmonic distortion, instead of the more forgiving 0.5% or 1% THD standards most manufacturers use. Any two adjacent channels can be bridged to double the output power.
The Cinema Standard is available in two- and three-channel versions. Both are built into a 6U chassis with front and rear rack-mounting brackets. Through the use of large heat sinks and carefully designed airflow paths, the Cinema Standard runs cool and reliably without the need for cooling fans.
Built-in, switchable high-pass and low-pass filters allow the Cinema Standard to be optimized for use with powered or passive subwoofers. The filters are preset to 80 Hz and -18 dB/octave, so they can be used to filter the bass out of a system’s main
Dan D’Agostino Cinema Standard amplifier press release / page 2
speakers, or to filter midrange and high frequencies out of a subwoofer. This feature makes it much easier to achieve a perfect blend between the main speakers and the subwoofer in a 2.1-channel stereo system, and it’s currently offered in no other high-end amplifier.
XLR inputs are provided for each channel, and a single input can be bussed to feed one, two or three amplifier channels. An RS-232 interface allows external control of the amplifier, and also provides a continuous report of the amplifier’s status. Through a home automation system or a direct computer connection, it can alert the owner or dealer to such conditions as overheating or overload (short circuit). A remote trigger jack also allows on/off triggering from surround processors and home automation systems with remote trigger outputs.
“The Cinema Standard is something new: an amplifier that brings the smoothness and ease of audiophile components to home theater and custom installation applications,” D’Agostino LLC founder and chief engineer Dan D’Agostino said. “The circuit design is adapted directly from the one I used in the Momentum amplifiers, so it’s very transparent and has plenty enough power for any situation. And the high-pass and low-pass filters will finally make it easy for audiophiles to add a subwoofer to their systems, so they can get deeper bass and better dynamics without sacrificing musicality.”
The Cinema Standard will be priced at $12,000 for the two-channel version, and $15,000 for the three-channel version. Both will be available in January 2015.
$12,000 or $15,000 for the 2 and 3 channel option, respectively. The Cinema Standard will be on display with other D’Agostino products, including the new MLife integrated amplifier, at CES Venetian Suite 29-224 in Las Vegas, January 6 to 9, 2015
For more information on the Cinema Standard and other Dan D’Agostino Master Audio Systems products, please visit www.dandagostino.com.

« Last Edit: Mon February 09, 2015, 08:50:36 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE-Dagostino prices...
« Reply #17 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 08:54:05 PM »
Imagine doing 34 channels bi amped with this, that was going to be Europa, personally for Triton only 3 x 3 are needed. relief!




Offline Peter CINERAMAX

The Milenium amp just creams every amplifier ever made...
« Reply #18 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 09:00:49 PM »
When i was designing the Europa system with the 10" diamond coated 2 carat woofers, I called this guy and told him togive me his 45,00 sereo amp but make it no frills, it is now THE CINEMA STANDARD. I wonder when Ivan is going to upgrade to Atmos...? ;D ;D ;D

This is the guy that invented Krelll, which by comparison sound thin and zippy, these are warm, superarticulate, meaty; refined yet masculine.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

D'agostino cinema standard rear
« Reply #19 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 09:47:26 PM »
hers is it's butt..


Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #20 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 10:05:55 PM »
while the amp has low pass filtering at 80hz about, we will need a Quested LMS48 crossover for the left center right and to connect securely the two sbs subs.
« Last Edit: Mon February 09, 2015, 11:39:21 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Superb amplifier damping factor for Dag Cinema Standard
« Reply #21 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 10:10:56 PM »
Just got the specs from Dan. PERFECT DAMPING RESPONSE (doubling down by half ohmeage)

8 ohms   350
4 ohms   700
2 ohms 1400

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Left Center Right to be treated as Class A - 6 widths get 2x of surround spl
« Reply #22 on: Tue February 10, 2015, 03:01:57 PM »
Custom all digital to dac x-overing for tri way zubed system...
« Last Edit: Wed February 11, 2015, 11:45:32 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #23 on: Tue February 10, 2015, 07:24:10 PM »
Ok here we are at PIE IN The Sky, now I let sit for a bit, and come back in Devils advocate mode, why this , the why of that, priorities ranking and weighing, that is all for now....

I still need to deliver something on PROTEUS to prospective client. Perfectionism is a bitch!

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

We have been lucky...
« Reply #24 on: Wed February 11, 2015, 02:07:02 PM »
Its never optimum to mix and match speakers for a home system, despite this I feel we have been incredibly lucky that we started with a room that had pecil speakers because by selecting going with vertical lt-24's we are assuring superb controlled directivity to the kill zone. And none of the BS poor horizontal directivity lt-20 and z16 like designs.

More on that and on today's watershed speaker directivity for Trinnov 24 to 32 channel systems' epiphany- that assigns engineering resources proportionately in terms of the importance in percentage of sound emanating from these three groups.

SPEAKER GROUP 1) 80% of the sound comes from here per SMPTE. The LCR gets Class a sound components. Such a-chain will yield warm, meaty, breezy, agile, yet super-articulate in micro-detailed bands of the high frequencies, but with apparent top-to-bottom unrestricted torque, through superior while yet still reasonably priced DACS and Amplifiers, GENIAL NO?
 
SPEAKER GROUP 2) the immediate transition from screen unto side wall and ceiling channels. These do not get any ad/da conversions on their way to the amps from the crossover.They are fed from the internal dacs of the slave trinnov 8 in 16 out MC2.

SPEAKER GROUP 3) The surround speakers in the room The 22 lt-24's inside the room that are not behind the screen, we are not bothered by taking the analog out of the the ad/da conversion inside the quested amps because our brain is generally focused on the above 2 groups.
« Last Edit: Wed February 11, 2015, 02:22:18 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »


 

anything