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Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« on: Tue December 23, 2014, 03:30:44 AM »
Moons of Neptune are TO BE existing famous installations where we may have supplied one brand of components , kaleidescape, teranex, Barco, Ada, and other , Typical Do It Your self cinema aficionados where we contributed something useful we hope..

ENTER ATMOS, QUESTED, and Trinnov 3D remapping.

The rave reviews from super-perfectionist Dr. Jeff is now resonating with chatter in the UK forums and as far as Malasya and Thailand, the message is clear, even the most modest of the Quested speakers are powerhouses  ideal for a 32 channel Trinnov Altitude systems being rolled out as we speak.

So it was kind of a shoe in that an existing 7.1 wisdom 75 with dual wisdom monster subs be augmented with the hot commodity RIBBON speakers in the 3d sound era.

The owner must have read this forum because he seems to trust the atmos/trinnov/quested approach pioneered in Russia's ALBIORIX. And hammered down with Brett Crocket and his backroom labrats. ;D The system should also do Auro/DTS ULTRA perfectly as well.

At Cineramax we want a screen that is either wall to wall floor to ceiling or both, TRITON is BOTH a 21 foot wide cinemascope no less.


Linkback: http://dci-forum.com/d-cinema-home/11/triton-first-moon-neptune/266/
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:53:35 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #1 on: Tue December 23, 2014, 06:29:03 AM »
Cinema Triton

Lt24
6 heights
6 sides

Lt8iw
6 ceiling

Lt8
4 widths

2 rear 18 subs on channel 17 make wisdom subs 1 channel.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #2 on: Tue December 23, 2014, 01:16:20 PM »
changes were dismissed sticking to all ribbon speakers for homogeneity.
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:41:21 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE a Width Channel Remapping Challenge
« Reply #3 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 12:24:25 AM »
This Statement by Tony Grimani is one where we more than agree, the width channel is crucial:

"Wide speakers, placed at about 60 degrees from center, are arguably more important than the heavily hyped ceiling element. One of the most challenging areas of the sound field to reproduce correctly is the transition from the screen speakers to the sidewall surrounds. All too often, pans jump abruptly from one to the other instead of moving smoothly. Wide speakers address this by adding a physical sound source between the two points rather than relying entirely on phantom imaging. Ceiling speakers (particularly toward the front of the room) perform a similar function in the vertical plane. They create smooth pans from the screen speakers over the audience and eventually to the back wall of surrounds. Thus far, vertical flyovers in mixes are less common than the ubiquitous off-screen side pans; hence the reason I would prioritize width speakers rather than ceiling speakers.

HE ALSO SAID
As with any speaker, placement, coverage, and aiming are critical. Wides should go at an angle that is roughly midway between the left or right speaker and the first surround speaker on the side wall. In most rooms, this will be about +/- 55-60 degrees from front center. If you’re dealing with a narrow room, be careful that this doesn’t put the wides excessively close to the seats. Remember, you don’t want to blast people in the face. Most screen speakers have wide horizontal dispersion, but it never hurts to confirm they are wide enough to cover the entire audience side to side from a closer distance. It should be self-evident by this point, but you must aim the wides at the audience like a screen speaker. Don’t just sink them flush in the wall to fire across the room at each other. This would put the entire audience at an extreme off-axis angle with poor frequency response and spray sound in parts of the room it’s not needed.

The first pair of ceiling speakers should go midway along the lines between the primary listening position and the L/R screen speakers–perhaps slightly closer together. If you opt for a second pair, they should go over the audience the same distance apart as the first pair. The ceiling speakers must also cover the entire audience and avoid spraying sound unnecessarily into places no one is sitting."
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 01:19:20 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #4 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 01:26:48 AM »
Here are the existing Left Center Rights and side surrounds that will stay put.

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/pdfs/datasheets/Wisdom_L75_datasheet.pdf

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
THIS IS NOT CRAZY-IT WILL WORK 100%
« Reply #5 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 03:51:46 AM »
Digest my proposed implementation of 4 different variants of Trinnov Remapping to create the ultimate 3d formats soundfields.Optimized for Atmos, Auro, DtsU and to deal with a beautiful view on one side.of the cinema.

Before you start screaming window theatments they are there. Simply sometimes is more civilized watching a movie with the lights of the city below.

View simulated please no fact checking Donald ;D.

Remapping Variant-1 Robust Width Channels properly positioned-indispensable.

Remapping Variant-2 Variable positioning of the foremost screen height channels
 from behind the screen to forward of the screen to satisfy ATMOS, AURO, and DTS ULTRA requirements.

Remapping Variant-3 Create additional surround speaker locations at surround speaker level floating virtual speakers in front of view.

Remapping Variant-4 For Auro side height speaker angle correction.
 
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 05:19:49 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
pdf for legibility
« Reply #6 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:06:15 AM »
pdf for legibility
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 05:02:38 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Final Updated Behind the screen height and widths
« Reply #7 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:36:20 AM »
Accepted as excellent implementation by both Atmos residential and commercial technical departments.
« Last Edit: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:50:18 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #8 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 04:51:38 AM »
6 sides, 10 heights, 4 channel for biamped widths plus one rear sub...uhm

Time to look at the 4 surround l75 crossovers to be handled outside altitude.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
You may recognize John our engineer pictured above with Brett Crocket from.....
« Reply #9 on: Fri December 26, 2014, 05:31:22 AM »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON FINAL LAYOUT
« Reply #10 on: Mon January 05, 2015, 07:52:09 AM »
FINAL

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON FINAL WITH REAR SUBS
« Reply #11 on: Mon January 05, 2015, 08:32:34 AM »
7 CHANNELS BI AMPED TOTAL=14 TRINNOV CHANNELS

FRONT 2 SUBS -ONE CHANNEL 1 TRINNOV CHANNEL
REAR 2 SUBS-ONE CHANNEL 1 TRINNOV CHANNEL

18 LT-24'S 16 CHANNEL TOTAL 32, CHECK!

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE HISTORY MADE ON Jan 6
« Reply #12 on: Wed January 07, 2015, 03:11:59 AM »
In an hour long conference call encompassing three time zones The client, Curt Hoyt and I hammered down all the details of this historic full 32 channel implementation AUTOCADS to follow.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
DTSX- MAY IMPACT LAYOUT
« Reply #13 on: Fri January 09, 2015, 03:15:35 AM »
HERE ARE THE NEW DTSX CEILING HEIGHTS

Even though this was a circular room, it's clear the exact same Auro approach.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #14 on: Fri January 09, 2015, 04:46:16 AM »
http://livedesignonline.com/blog/adaptive-technologies-unveils-stargrid-mounting-system-overhead-cinema-surround-speakers

Unique Speaker Grid Paves the Way for New Cinema Surround Sound Experience

SIGNAL HILL, CA, FEBRUARY 12, 2013 — Adaptive Technologies Group, comprised of Allen Products, ATM Fly-ware and Adaptive Video Walls and Displays, and a premier provider of state-of-the-art rigging and mounting solutions for a wide range of audio and video applications, is proud to introduce its StarGrid™ overhead mounting system, specifically developed for clustering ceiling-mounted cinema speakers. This new system, which supports the latest ceiling speaker formats found in movie theaters, is designed to reduce the cost of multi-channel surround sound installations.

adaptive-stargrid-closeup.jpg

With digital cinema and 3D exhibition becoming state-of-the-art, directors and studios have begun implementing new object-based surround sound technologies, such as the Atmos™ surround format from Dolby Laboratories™ and the Auro format from Barco, to compliment the enhanced visual experience. Recent examples of this include the films Brave, Life of Pi and The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, to name a few, as well as upcoming titles such as Star Trek: Into Darkness. Adaptive’s StarGrid system supports the adoption of such technologies with a safe, easy-to-install ceiling grid that reduces total installation costs and optimizes the installation of surround speakers.

Cinema exhibitors are taking advantage of the StarGrid system and quickly recognizing its impact on safety, ease-of-installation, as well as the confidence and predictability that Adaptive designs bring to each of its theaters.

“The engineering and design behind Adaptive’s StarGrid system has enabled us to complete our overhead installations quickly and confidently in order to meet our client's ever-shrinking installation timelines,” says Adam Peterson, director of technical services, Universal Cinema Services. “While an auditorium is under renovation, it isn’t generating any revenue. The StarGrid allows us to get in and out of an overhead installation fast, in order to help the client get back to selling tickets.”

adaptive-stargrid-closeup-2.jpg

Proper placement and aiming of speakers in a cinema setting is vital to achieving the desired audio experience. Not every facility, however, is designed the same way. To address this, Adaptive has developed a complete beam-to-speaker design that allows the StarGrid system to be easily retrofitted into almost any theater’s space. This system comes with a variety of components that accommodate most building materials and structures, including trusses, beams, pipes and channels. Further design considerations take wire management, sound isolation and seismic conditions into account. Lastly, Adaptive offers a variety of adjustable speaker mounts that accommodate standard cinema speaker models, including those produced by Eastern Acoustic Works (EAW), Electro-Voice, JBL Professional, Klipsch, Meyer Audio and QSC Audio.

adaptive-stargrid-closeup-3.jpg

“With Adaptive’s StarGrid there is finally a structurally engineered ceiling speaker attachment method that’s perfect for cinema,” says Jim Kappus, director of sales and logistics, ACS Enterprises, Inc. “It is a safe and risk-free method for properly installing overhead speakers.”

For this customized solution, Adaptive can provide the installer with a complete ceiling grid design based on facility drawings that includes dimensioned drawings for installation, a bill of materials, working load and safety factors, as well as auditorium-specific recommendations. Theater owners need only provide Adaptive with the drawings (preferably CAD files) of the facility and the placement of any acoustic wall treatment. Adaptive then creates the installation design for installers to follow, detailing the exact location of the ceiling speakers and the grid components that support them. This can also provide support for the submittal of plans for approval.

adaptive-stargrid-cinema-layout.jpg

“It is really exciting to once again be a part of another major cinema technology build-out,” says Paul Allen, CEO, Adaptive Technologies Group. “For decades we have worked with leading theater chains and speaker manufacturers to develop cinema specific surround mounts for walls. With StarGrid, we have created an easy way to safely and efficiently install ceiling surrounds in auditoriums, making the whole process more predictable and less costly for theater owners. Adaptive has had a long history of supporting sound innovations and we are happy to continue this tradition with this latest offering.”

About Adaptive Technologies Group

Adaptive Technologies Group combines the talents and disciplines of Allen Products, ATM Fly-ware and Adaptive Video Walls and Displays, and offers state-of-the art rigging and mounting solutions for a range of audio and video applications. With its combined divisions, Adaptive is a full-service solution provider, by way of the design, development and manufacturing of professionally installed AV mounting and rigging equipment worldwide. Each brand offers its own standard and unique time-saving solutions, best safety practices and unlimited custom designs for any venue, size and application.

In addition to providing a wide selection of popular mounting and rigging solutions, Adaptive is a major resource for hundreds of commonly used and often hard to find rigging hardware and fastener items. Based in Signal Hill, California, all overhead products and parts are made and assembled in the USA. For more information, visit http://adapttechgroup.com.
« Last Edit: Fri January 09, 2015, 09:50:03 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON UNHINGED- 13 more channels to be added
« Reply #15 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 07:46:19 AM »
RE-EDITED for latest design......

Today when he is receiving like 36 boxes of quested speakers and amplifiers my client decides to:

hi peter,

i agreed with my wife to use the wisdoms in the living room, so we can use some more channels and some more speakers :-)


As you know the Triton system was designed using a combination of wisdom audio l75s and 16 channels in 18 speakers lt-24 questeds.

While the ceiling and surround speakers were going to be awesome specially yielding close personal space invasion in it's immersion, the system was failing to meet several important criteria.

That most of the sound emanates from the screen. The wisdoms break up at high spl.

That center channel positioned signals is 80% of the cinema sound. Similar point.

That with so many many speakers possible with a Trinnov or Dolby Cp-850 that no speaker by itself should be sending gratuitous signals were they are not welcomed, the wisdoms like all line sources just blast the perforated screen with redundant and thus confusing extra unnecessary sound. In pro sudio the goal is to better understand the signal, I will thus point the correct speaker array for the specified signal to the MLP Kill zone, but also make sure extreme pointing does not cause cancellations so they are to be semi pointed. Another example of someone sending sound were it is not needed or wanted is quested's own implementation of the first ceiling centre at ISE. Im telling you they make the best speakers but they have 3 years learning about immersiveness required, yeah Guy tells me that he will be talking to Dolby next week, yeah right the blind leading the blind, we had to confront these engineers to fix their recommended layouts. So if you want to know how to the a perfect atmos setup since after all you are spending a small fortune in speakers, amplifiers and cable, you best get your answers here! :D

The lcr's need to be 4x that of the viewing room surrounds and ceiling. Using the best amp for the buck.

That the speakers next to the lcr behind the screen, the first widths and the first heights both in need to be able to transition at full spl x2 the power of surrounds and ceilings.

NEW CRITERIA That if the speaker in the room are vertically mounted in controlled directivity the 1st width speakers behind the screen should be that for small kill zone MLP's or point source for wider kill zones.

NEW CRITERIA first heights should be z8's to have wide dispersion.

NEW CRITERIA that the second and third Widths which are on the side walls will have 2x the power of the surrounds and ceiling speakers while preserving the vertical d'appolito controlled directivity factor.

I am designing the z 4-4 tomorrow stay tuned.....

We can a use the new speakers being introduced at ISE but why do that and compromise the correct bespoke solution based on the existing 18 quested lt-24's.

I am also calling D'agostino because 80% of the sound coming out of the screen should in my view have the complete honesty and ruthless revelation of the Millenium amp which to my ears 10 times better than any other amp out there now that the they have the CINEMA STANDARD.

« Last Edit: Mon February 09, 2015, 11:57:12 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE-lcr choices
« Reply #16 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 08:45:55 PM »
lcr will be either 4 way z16 or the atmos reference studio conceived and requested by me to atmos engineering comments. The code name z112, it sits atop the same zub.

If we go with the z112 then I want to achieve ultimate fidelity hence the millenium derived power amp....

D’Agostino LLC introduces Cinema Standard two- and three-channel amplifiers
New amplifiers with incomparable theater sound and innovative features to be shown at CES Venetian Suite 29-224, January 6 to 9, 2015
CAVE CREEK, AZ, DECEMBER 30, 2014 — D’Agostino LLC, the company founded by famed audio designer Dan D’Agostino, today announced the Cinema Standard, a new multichannel amplifier designed for use in home theaters and stereo systems. Available in two- and three-channel versions, the Cinema Standard delivers the performance and sound quality of D’Agostino’s Momentum amplifiers in a rack-mountable chassis practical for use in home theaters and custom installations. It also offers innovative features that allow it to deliver optimum sound in many different applications.
Each channel of the Cinema Standard delivers 250 watts into 8 ohms, doubling to 500 watts into 4 ohms and again to 1,000 watts into 2 ohms. These power ratings are taken at 0.1% total harmonic distortion, instead of the more forgiving 0.5% or 1% THD standards most manufacturers use. Any two adjacent channels can be bridged to double the output power.
The Cinema Standard is available in two- and three-channel versions. Both are built into a 6U chassis with front and rear rack-mounting brackets. Through the use of large heat sinks and carefully designed airflow paths, the Cinema Standard runs cool and reliably without the need for cooling fans.
Built-in, switchable high-pass and low-pass filters allow the Cinema Standard to be optimized for use with powered or passive subwoofers. The filters are preset to 80 Hz and -18 dB/octave, so they can be used to filter the bass out of a system’s main
Dan D’Agostino Cinema Standard amplifier press release / page 2
speakers, or to filter midrange and high frequencies out of a subwoofer. This feature makes it much easier to achieve a perfect blend between the main speakers and the subwoofer in a 2.1-channel stereo system, and it’s currently offered in no other high-end amplifier.
XLR inputs are provided for each channel, and a single input can be bussed to feed one, two or three amplifier channels. An RS-232 interface allows external control of the amplifier, and also provides a continuous report of the amplifier’s status. Through a home automation system or a direct computer connection, it can alert the owner or dealer to such conditions as overheating or overload (short circuit). A remote trigger jack also allows on/off triggering from surround processors and home automation systems with remote trigger outputs.
“The Cinema Standard is something new: an amplifier that brings the smoothness and ease of audiophile components to home theater and custom installation applications,” D’Agostino LLC founder and chief engineer Dan D’Agostino said. “The circuit design is adapted directly from the one I used in the Momentum amplifiers, so it’s very transparent and has plenty enough power for any situation. And the high-pass and low-pass filters will finally make it easy for audiophiles to add a subwoofer to their systems, so they can get deeper bass and better dynamics without sacrificing musicality.”
The Cinema Standard will be priced at $12,000 for the two-channel version, and $15,000 for the three-channel version. Both will be available in January 2015.
$12,000 or $15,000 for the 2 and 3 channel option, respectively. The Cinema Standard will be on display with other D’Agostino products, including the new MLife integrated amplifier, at CES Venetian Suite 29-224 in Las Vegas, January 6 to 9, 2015
For more information on the Cinema Standard and other Dan D’Agostino Master Audio Systems products, please visit www.dandagostino.com.

« Last Edit: Mon February 09, 2015, 08:50:36 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE-Dagostino prices...
« Reply #17 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 08:54:05 PM »
Imagine doing 34 channels bi amped with this, that was going to be Europa, personally for Triton only 3 x 3 are needed. relief!

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE


Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
The Milenium amp just creams every amplifier ever made...
« Reply #18 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 09:00:49 PM »
When i was designing the Europa system with the 10" diamond coated 2 carat woofers, I called this guy and told him togive me his 45,00 sereo amp but make it no frills, it is now THE CINEMA STANDARD. I wonder when Ivan is going to upgrade to Atmos...? ;D ;D ;D

This is the guy that invented Krelll, which by comparison sound thin and zippy, these are warm, superarticulate, meaty; refined yet masculine.

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
D'agostino cinema standard rear
« Reply #19 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 09:47:26 PM »
hers is it's butt..

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #20 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 10:05:55 PM »
while the amp has low pass filtering at 80hz about, we will need a Quested LMS48 crossover for the left center right and to connect securely the two sbs subs.
« Last Edit: Mon February 09, 2015, 11:39:21 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Superb amplifier damping factor for Dag Cinema Standard
« Reply #21 on: Mon February 09, 2015, 10:10:56 PM »
Just got the specs from Dan. PERFECT DAMPING RESPONSE (doubling down by half ohmeage)

8 ohms   350
4 ohms   700
2 ohms 1400

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Left Center Right to be treated as Class A - 6 widths get 2x of surround spl
« Reply #22 on: Tue February 10, 2015, 03:01:57 PM »
Custom all digital to dac x-overing for tri way zubed system...
« Last Edit: Wed February 11, 2015, 11:45:32 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Reply #23 on: Tue February 10, 2015, 07:24:10 PM »
Ok here we are at PIE IN The Sky, now I let sit for a bit, and come back in Devils advocate mode, why this , the why of that, priorities ranking and weighing, that is all for now....

I still need to deliver something on PROTEUS to prospective client. Perfectionism is a bitch!

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
We have been lucky...
« Reply #24 on: Wed February 11, 2015, 02:07:02 PM »
Its never optimum to mix and match speakers for a home system, despite this I feel we have been incredibly lucky that we started with a room that had pecil speakers because by selecting going with vertical lt-24's we are assuring superb controlled directivity to the kill zone. And none of the BS poor horizontal directivity lt-20 and z16 like designs.

More on that and on today's watershed speaker directivity for Trinnov 24 to 32 channel systems' epiphany- that assigns engineering resources proportionately in terms of the importance in percentage of sound emanating from these three groups.

SPEAKER GROUP 1) 80% of the sound comes from here per SMPTE. The LCR gets Class a sound components. Such a-chain will yield warm, meaty, breezy, agile, yet super-articulate in micro-detailed bands of the high frequencies, but with apparent top-to-bottom unrestricted torque, through superior while yet still reasonably priced DACS and Amplifiers, GENIAL NO?
 
SPEAKER GROUP 2) the immediate transition from screen unto side wall and ceiling channels. These do not get any ad/da conversions on their way to the amps from the crossover.They are fed from the internal dacs of the slave trinnov 8 in 16 out MC2.

SPEAKER GROUP 3) The surround speakers in the room The 22 lt-24's inside the room that are not behind the screen, we are not bothered by taking the analog out of the the ad/da conversion inside the quested amps because our brain is generally focused on the above 2 groups.
« Last Edit: Wed February 11, 2015, 02:22:18 PM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
D'agostinoi cannot believe the incredible value of the MSB analog Dacs - review
« Reply #25 on: Wed February 11, 2015, 07:03:08 PM »
We need 3 dacs that compliment the audio signature of the D'agostino amp to counteract the severe sterility of the sound of the Trinnov when front ending the ad/da section of the quested dacs above.



An easy a/b comparison of the Trinnov based ADA cinema reference and the ada suite 7.1 using only 7.2 at Albiorix set that argument to bed very quickly that and the natural hollosonic integrity of the sound image in the space perhaps.....So we are not leaving the LEFT Center and Right signals unmaximised at Rtriton.

Here is the Stereophile article on the MSB analog Dac, they exhibited with D'agostino at CES 2015 on the same booth  (if Dan could not believe the incredible value that settles it for TRITON).

Back in high-end audio's golden days—for the purposes of this story, the mid- to late 1980s—my audio store, Audio Ecstasy, had a service tech named Tom Hewitt. Were he still with us (and I wish he were), Tom would appreciate the radical case design of the MSB Analog DAC. Tom loved not only to fix things, but to see what happened when things were violently stressed. He tested the limits of component construction.

Tiring of dropping receivers off our building's roof or ramming TVs (tied to the back of a pickup truck) into the shop's brick wall, Tom soon discovered that one of our customers owned a machine shop with an industrial press. Pay dirt. Somewhere there are camcorder cassettes of what transpired, but let's just say that even the best casework was no match for this giant squishing machine. Tom's videos would first show the component being crushed. Then he would gleefully pan to the pressure gauge, as it rose higher and higher. Then back to the metal pancake.

Which brings us to MSB Technology's Analog DAC.

This product's design and shape suggest a typical MSB component that has been squeezed tight in an industrial press, then sanded and buffed to a smooth finish. Call it an audiophile pancake. In fact, it resembles in size and thickness the bigger-than-plate-size blueberry pancakes at Hoover's Beef Palace, just up the road from me in Templeton, California (yes, this is true!). I'll bet Tom would be challenged in trying destroy the Analog DAC, and appreciate how well it's made.

I reviewed MSB's Diamond DAC IV (since renamed the Diamond DAC IV plus) in the October 2012 issue, with Diamond Power Base and other upgrades ($43,325), and it remains the best digital I've heard in my home system. When I spied the new Analog DAC at the 2013 Consumer Electronics Show, in Las Vegas, and was told that it's their new, lower-cost product, I was interested before I'd even heard any specifics. And when I did hear those specifics, they were interesting.

Best-case scenario
Let's start with that enclosure. The stealthy-looking Analog DAC ($6995) is CNC-machined from a solid hunk of aircraft-grade aluminum and comes in matte silver or black, with custom colors available for $699. They leave much of the metal in, removing it only where they need to stuff electronics—what's left feels like a solid plank of 7/8"-thick metal. The case is 17.5" wide and 12.5" deep and sports curved sides, with a semicircular bulge at each corner for a little spike foot. Underneath is a hatch to gain access to the main electronics, and there are three slots on the back for the inputs. It looks like something that would fly if tossed like a Frisbee.

414msb.bac.jpg

On the back, starting at the left, are the balanced and unbalanced analog outputs and analog input, grouped by channel. MSB recommends using the unbalanced outputs if possible—they claim that the DAC is "fundamentally single-ended." Unless the optional volume control is installed, the single-ended analog inputs are passed directly to the outputs. With the volume control, this input can be either volume controlled or not, depending on the menu settings; MSB suggests that it's ideal for adding a vinyl input, if you're using the Analog DAC as a preamp. This input should be shorted when not in use, as it was during my testing.

To the right of the output/analog input section are three slots for the various digital input options. The five possible choices for the three spots are: Optical and coax S/PDIF inputs (on one input block), XLR balanced AES/EBU input, MSB network input (it looks like an Ethernet jack, so is colored bright green), Pro I2S input, and a 32-bit/384kHz PCM/DSD-compatible USB input. I'll go over the prices of these options later; it can be a bit perplexing. My review sample came with the Optical/Coax, MSB network, and USB options.

To the right of the inputs is a jack for the DC power supply. There are two power-supply options: the linear Basic Desktop supply, with two transformers, is included in the basic price and gets the job done; a more advanced supply, the Analog Power Base, is housed in a case that looks just like the Analog DAC and makes a nice stacking companion (yes, like pancakes). It contains five transformers—for complete isolation of digital processing, clocks, and analog DAC modules—as well as a 12V power trigger for remote operation. On the back of the Power Base are an IEC AC power receptacle, a DC out jack, trigger jacks, and a teeny-tiny power switch that glows red when off, green when on. I'm wise to MSB products, so I quickly found this unmarked switchette and figured how to turn it on without help. I had only the Analog Power Base upgrade on hand for listening, so can't remark on what improvements, if any, it makes over the Basic Desktop supply. The Analog Power Base adds $2995 to the price: total so far, $9990.

Back to the Analog DAC. The front of its case is bare, smooth metal, but on top, at right front, the volume control and input selector sit flush with the surface. The volume selector is puck-sized with the input button a small circular indent in the volume puck and held in by gravity. How do I know about the gravity thing? When I first turned the review sample over to check out the bottom, the heavy volume knob and small input button fell out and bounced on the floor. Oops. Luckily, no dents.

To the left of the volume control is a small grid of pinholes in the aluminum; under these is the white LED display. The large letters and numbers are quite bright and let you know the software version on startup, the input selected, the sample rate, and, as you spin the knob, the volume setting. The interaction between the volume and input selector and the display have a great feel, and there's a very satisfying little clicking sound as you bounce the volume up and down. At the rear of the top panel are the MSB logo, and labels for the outputs in light colored type.

This arrangement, with the volume control on top, worked great when I perched the Meridian Sooloos Control 15 (with its small stand) atop the DAC. However, this might prove problematic with a normal component on top, as I found when I added to the stack the MSB Universal Media Transport plus. With the UMT+ underneath, the feet lined up perfectly, and the volume control was visible again. The one ergonomic issue I had with the Analog DAC's controls was when I switched inputs in low light: I would invariably also tick the volume knob a bit. It took some skill to push the barely visible input switch and not hit the volume by mistake.

Filter King
The Analog DAC includes MSB's Femto Clock technology, as well as 80-bit digital processing and 384kHz ladder DACs. When I asked MSB's Vince Galbo for some details about the digital filter used in the Analog DAC, he said that even though the DAC IV has several filters to choose from, "while everyone wants to play with these [filters in the DAC IV], they all come to the same conclusion, that one of the default filters is the best. So the default filter is the same in the Analog DAC as that DAC IV series default filter." Which means they're using a custom-designed, linear-phase apodizing filter designed for minimal pre-ringing. Galbo explained that this is "MSB's definition of the term apodizing in that it has a stop band that starts before the Nyquist limit of the source's sample rate (for example, 22.05kHz for 'Red Book'), therefore avoiding aliasing caused by the Nyquist limit."

The Grand Total
Let's talk price. The Analog DAC is MSB's "lower-priced" DAC, but of course that's only relative to their pricy products as noted above. The Analog DAC's base price is $6995, which includes one input module, basic remote control, and the Basic Desktop power supply. This is all some folks will need to get up and running.

 You can add the volume control for $995, turning the DAC into a preamp (if you do this, don't forget that it has just that one analog input!). Next, you can add a remote-control upgrade ($85), RS-232 input ($995), or WiFi control ($995). Additional digital inputs cost $995 each (you can add two more). Finally, you can upgrade to the Analog Power Base supply for $2995. The review sample had three inputs, volume control, and Power Base, bringing its total to $11,980. Note: Unlike the other inputs and power supply, which can be upgraded down the line, the volume-control option cannot be added later—it must be ordered with the Analog DAC itself.

First Attempt
I set up the short stack of Analog DAC and Analog Power Base on my cabinet and ran it overnight to settle it in. It didn't get very warm—a balmy 94.5°F was the hottest spot near the display (MSB's Diamond DAC IV ran so hot I couldn't put it in a cabinet)—so I proceeded to set the Sooloos Control 15 on top and fed the MSB via its S/PDIF input. The two products look great together, and the Control 15's smallish base left the Analog DAC's volume control and input switch right where I wanted them.

I cued up a few albums—standard rips from CDs—and settled in for some first-impression listening. Then I cued up some high-definition music. Silence. I restarted the MSB. It powered up, selected the right sample rate (96kHz), and played. No problem. I switched back to a lower sampling rate. No problem. I went to a higher rate and it locked up again.

I e-mailed Vince Galbo, who noted that a dealer had reported the same problem with the Sooloos, as had users of Logitech Transporters. According to Galbo, "some sources do not switch perfectly clean, and the sample-rate transition may contain a bit of noise. Our inputs have a fairly stringent 'window of acceptance,' so to speak." I put the MSB to one side and reviewed some other DACs.

A couple months later, an update to the Analog DAC's firmware became available and I downloaded it from MSB's website. Updating was simple with the Sooloos: I downloaded the WAV file, added it to the Sooloos, and played it through the MSB once. The DAC rebooted, showed the new firmware number on its display, then played a short snippet of music to show that all was well.

You can also update the Analog via MSB's transport, your computer, or by burning the file to a CD. The only requirement, according to MSB, is that playback of the update must be bit-perfect, with no upsampling, volume, or any other filtering added. This update fixed the problem, but there was still one small glitch: Every time the Analog DAC switched to a higher sampling rate, the volume dropped one dB increment. A second update was soon posted and fixed that.

In his e-mail, Galbo had said this about the updates: "Because the MSB DAC modules are not format specific and can convert any format, now and in the future, such firmware updates make our DACs 'all new' in any way we choose. As an example, late last year we enabled DSD 64x and 128x in all MSB DACs, even though the DAC was never specifically designed for DSD." Cool.

Serious Listening
First things first: I wanted to establish the proper volume setting for listening and all of my comparisons. John Atkinson had recently sent me Benchmark's new, highly regarded DAC2 HGC, which has a volume knob on the front, as well as the ability to operate, via a fixed output level, with a preamp. To make sure I was listening to all DACs at the same level, whether compared through the preamp or connected directly to my amps, I ran the pink-noise track from Stereophile's Test CD 2 (Stereophile STPH004-2) and found that the Analog DAC needed to be set at "–3" to match the DAC2 HGC at fixed output, and the MSB at "–2" to match my older Benchmark DAC1 USB, which was also on hand and is a tad louder than the DAC2 HGC.

That out of the way, I spent over a month using the MSB as my main DAC, driven by the Meridian Sooloos, by computer, or by MSB's own Universal Media Transport plus. I applied the MSB updates mentioned above and commenced serious listening.

414msb.pwr.jpg

I began with the Bee Gees. No, not those albums—I grabbed the ones before disco, when the band was a serious Beatles clone (which qualifies several of their songs for my ever-expanding "Not the Beatles" playlist of Beatles sound-alikes). The first half-dozen or so albums, from 1966 to 1971, were well recorded, packed with great tunes, and most have been reissued with extra tracks.

Starting with the standout song "Massachusetts," from the Horizontal CD, the Analog DAC placed everything in space perfectly, with a nice, rich bottom end and a nonaggressive midrange. One thing I love about good, honest transfers of these older albums is that you get the sound of the minor recording artifacts pretty much intact—back then, they couldn't just edit, filter, and EQ everything to perfection. The result is that, with a DAC like the MSB, you get a sense of someone hitting Play on a big reel of wide-track analog tape, after being fed by live mikes in a room.

Other DACs that have been able to re-create this sense of "thereness" include the MSB's bigger Diamond brother and Ayre Acoustics' original QB-9 (unfortunately equipped only with USB). When I added MSB's Universal Media Transport plus to the mix, that "thereness" notched up a nanotad. I could easily live with the sound from the Sooloos, but the UMT+, via the MSB Pro I2S, put the Analog DAC in the best possible light.

Against the Benchmark
I moved on to some other great, early Bee Gees cuts, and brought the new Benchmark DAC2 HGC out for head-to-head comparisons. From the Bee Gees' 1st (Reprise), from 1967 (actually their third LP, if you count the Australia-only releases), "Holiday" and "To Love Somebody" are semi-lost gems of the era, complete with full orchestral arrangements—when I swapped in the Benchmark DAC2 HGC, everything lost a bit of focus. The top-to-bottom balance felt right, but Barry and Robin Gibb's melancholic voices didn't sound as solid as with the MSB.

414msb.machining.jpg

A more recent release—Midlake's latest, Antiphon (ATO)—features thick slabs of guitar and fabulous vocal harmonies, but it's a tangled recording. Though it couldn't entirely unravel the mass of sound, the MSB again better separated all the parts and anchored them all down, compared to either Benchmark. The older Benchmark DAC1 USB, in particular, had a tougher time with the album's title track, adding a slight gloss to the voices.

Finally, a guilty pleasure (as if the Bee Gees weren't enough): Lorde's Pure Heroine (CD, Virgin 3751900). I didn't connect with this album at first, but after Corrina had played "Royals" a half-dozen times (and I watched Puddles the Clown's version on YouTube), I wanted to hear it again. And again. Tired of audiophile female-voice lounge-jazz Krall demos? Here's a rich female voice with a subtle electronic backing track that will test your system from top to bottom.

Corrina sat in the sweet spot as I played "Royals" through both DACs (Analog DAC and DAC2 HGC), back and forth, twice. She didn't know which DAC was which, but commented that the second DAC sounded a bit "bigger," the first one "more focused." "I prefer the first one," she finally stated. The first one was the MSB, and she was exactly right. The Benchmark produced a greater sense of ambient space, but Ella Maria Lani Yelich-O'Connor's voice floated more cohesively between the speakers with the MSB. The Benchmark was slightly more ghostlike in this regard.

Conclusion and Au Revoir
I started to write up more musical examples, but realized I was just repeating myself. Every comparison with the DACs mentioned above, and a handful of others that passed through my system in the past several months, yielded the same results: a more focused sound with the MSB, coupled with the ability to match the best qualities of any other DAC in the hot seat. There was simply more there there.

I was sad to have to send another MSB DAC to JA's Brooklyn lab for testing. It notched my system up to a place where almost all digital sources had an organic, natural presence without sacrificing the accuracy and detail present in the best recordings—no small feat. Fully decked out, the price came to a bit under $12,000, which is not cheap by any measure except other MSB products. I'm seriously considering how to swing the basic model with no volume control, one input, and Basic Desktop power supply (can be upgraded later), for $6995. You should too.

 Sidebar 1: Specifications

Description: Solid-state D/A processor with outboard power supply. Inputs (three slots): choice of coaxial, TosLink, balanced AES/EBU, MSB network PROi2S, or USB; one pair of analog inputs on RCA jacks. Analog outputs: one pair single-ended RCAs, one pair balanced on XLRs. Volume control (optional): 1dB stepped attenuator (78 steps). Sampling frequency: 32–384kHz. Bit depth: 32. DSD: 64x, 128x. Maximum output level: 2.62V RMS, single-ended and balanced. Output impedance: 53 ohms, single-ended, 106 ohms, balanced, without volume control; 38 ohms, single-ended, 76 ohms, balanced, with volume control.
Dimensions: 17.5" (450mm) W by 1" (26mm) H by 13" (335mm) D. MSB Basic Desktop power supply: 6.5" (170mm) W by 2.25" (60mm) H by 9" (230mm) D. Weight: 28 lbs (12.7kg).
Serial number of unit reviewed: AV105981.
Price: $6995, including dual-toroid low-noise Basic Desktop power supply, one choice of input. Upgraded inputs and optional Analog Power Base, extra (see text). Approximate number of dealers: 16.
Manufacturer: MSB Technology Corporation, 625 Main Street, Watsonville, CA 95076. Tel: (831) 662-2800. Fax: (831) 662-3800. Web: www.msbtech.com.

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

Triton gets a stack of 3 dacs and one power controller module.

In addition the MSB take the latest Oppo  unit with Darbeevision and separates the power supply, video wise it absolutely kills the oppo, for hdmi audio I dunno.

I've requested a quote as well....




 

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE- MSB DACS and BLU RAY TRANSPORT
« Reply #26 on: Wed February 11, 2015, 07:09:09 PM »
Pics from ces 2015

MSB

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE


D'agostino:

Take the best sounding amp you have ever heard and multiply by 20, that great it is!

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE-* channel dac too expensive for budget ?
« Reply #27 on: Wed February 11, 2015, 07:15:32 PM »
In europa we could have used these, for triton we go entry level, if they are good for Dan D'agostino we are fine....

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
« Last Edit: Thu February 12, 2015, 05:19:18 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »

Offline Peter CINERAMAX

TRITON THE FIRST MOON OF NEPTUNE
Re: TRITON version 1.5 recalled - procced to version 2.0
« Reply #28 on: Thu February 12, 2015, 12:39:41 AM »
THIS THREAD IS HEREBY TERMINATED VISIT NEW THREAD with latest system design TRITON 2.0

proceed to the new thread here:

http://dci-forum.com/d-cinema-home/11/triton-2-0-sensible-future-proof-system-design-based-proven-tech/300/msg823#msg823

We do preserve the objectives prioritization of the 1.5 design which is:

SPEAKER GROUP 1) 80% of the sound comes from here per SMPTE. The LCR gets Class a sound components. Such a-chain will yield warm, meaty, breezy, agile, yet super-articulate in micro-detailed bands of the high frequencies, but with apparent top-to-bottom unrestricted torque, through modular premium DACS and Amplifiers.
 
SPEAKER GROUP 2) the immediate transition from screen unto side wall and ceiling channels. These do not get any ad/da conversions on their way to the amps from the crossover.They are fed from the internal dacs of  the Altitude but still using the clinicality over-correcting highly admired amplifier.

SPEAKER GROUP 3) The surround speakers in the room The 22 lt-24's inside the room that are not behind the screen, we are not bothered by taking the analog out of the the Altitudes analog channel straight into the quested amps because our brain is generally focused on the above 2 groups where all the action is so we are not as attentive while pleasantly surprised by the sonic pirouttes,it will sound great then.
« Last Edit: Thu February 12, 2015, 05:44:43 AM by Peter CINERAMAX »